13 Star Cowpens/North Point Flag Help

[Jwilliam]

Hey there, I've acquired a very old 'looking' 13 Star Cowpens flag...The main thing right off the bat is it appears to be a vertical display flag being the square is in the right corner. I can't find nearly any information on the identification of a Cowpens flag as the only thing I'm able to find is the simple history of the Maryland 3rd Regiment and the flag itself. Could this have been a possible battle flag? Were vertical flags made in the same era? It seems to be of very old material and contains possible blood stains. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[NAVA1974]

I've acquired a very old 'looking' 13 Star Cowpens flag...The main thing right off the bat is it appears to be a vertical display flag being the square is in the right corner. I can't find nearly any information on the identification of a Cowpens flag as the only thing I'm able to find is the simple history of the Maryland 3rd Regiment and the flag itself. Could this have been a possible battle flag? Were vertical flags made in the same era? It seems to be of very old material and contains possible blood stains. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Welcome to the USA Flag Forum, Jwilliam!

From your description I assume that the flag is one-sided? I hope you will forgive me for jumping to conclusions, but I immediately though of this fake (see picture below) that was on eBay recently. For more info on these copies, please see:
Fake Flags

It would be very helpful if you could post some pics of your flag. There are a number of knowlegeble collectors on this forum and you can get some good leads.

Oh, by the way, the "Original" Cowpens flag is a fake, too. It is a 165-year old antique fake, but fake nevertheless. The State of Maryland removed it to their archives once it was pointed out that it was identical in manufacture to a flag that was known to have been made during the Mexican War era of the 1840's.

Nick

[Jwilliam]

Hey Nick! Thanks a lot for getting back to me. I will post some this weekend for sure..Actually it indeed is one-sided but nothing like the flag in the photo you posted. Is that the one you thought I was talking about? I would immediately be detoured from that flag anyways due to the gold edge. But thanks a lot and yes I've been doing quite a bit of research (as I have on quite a few flags) but of course there's very little history of the Cowpens compared to other Union Flags. Thanks!

[Jwilliam]

Hey there Nick - so I took some photos and here they are...If you get a chance - please check them out and give me your thoughts. Based on a lot more research I've done, it appears it could be fake..A few things that make me wonder though is why a Vertical fake?? And I did get another flag with this one - it's a 45 star and they both have the same wear and story of how they came from an old trunk from an estate - etc.etc. I was told the both were at least 100 yrs. old...The material seems to be old wool bunting..Anyways-thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
Pictures by arcturis99 - Photobucket

[AmericaHurrah]

This is absolutely a fake.

[Jwilliam]

Thanks - can you expound on why please? I'd appreciate it..Thanks again - J

[NAVA1974]

This is absolutely a fake.

I would not call it a "fake" because clearly it was not made of materials that would lead any knowledgeable person to believe it was of 18th century vintage. It is a home made replica, most likely 20th century manufacture. The zig-zag stitching of the stars puts an cap of early 1890's on the earliest date of manufacture. Since you could replicate it today using old cotton the actual age of manufacture is difficult to determine without extensive forensic examination that would cost more than the flag is worth.

The "decorative reproductions" of Civil War flags that plagued eBay a few years ago only became "fakes" when some unscrupulous jerks offered them as authentic 1860's vintage flags. Some sold for $3000 and up. They were a problem because potential buyers didn't bother to compare the roughly-stitched cotton flags with authentic wool-bunting USA flags that were also occasionally available on eBay. It also didn't occur to them that $3000 for a $15,000 authentic Confederate flag was "too good to be true."

Nick

[Jwilliam]

Thanks Nick...I suppose my issues were with it being a replica vertical flag?? (Which I've never seen 1 replica/fake vertical.)

Any rate-thanks again!

[AmericaHurrah]

I have to disagree, here, despite Nick's long expertise with flags. Many of the new, fake Confederate flags are made in the same general manner, of new fabric that has been washed with stones or otherwise aged to make it look worn and torn. Some people are better at this than others. You don't have to be good at it to fool people. You have to be good to fool people who see such things all the time, which doesn't account for most people when it comes to antique flags. In other words, this flag fooled you and it would fool many others. A friend of mine recently bought a 13 star flag a lot like this in the Caribbean at an antique shop, being sold as an original. He's been in the antiques business for many years, but he was fooled--an that was the intention. He does not know flags, so he made a mistake.

You can buy machines today that yield zigzag stitches and I'd say this is brand new all the way around and made to deceive. All of the fabrics are new. The wear is intentional.

[AmericaHurrah]

p.s.: The sellers of the fake Confederates only stopped trying to sell them as period when few eBay buyers believed the story anymore. After that time, they started to sell them as "reunion" flags, which was more plausible, and it worked. But they are brand new, like this flag. Not made by the same people, but new all the same.