[genmom]

My husband spent 30 years in the Air Force and we have proudly flown the National flag for at least the last 20 years. The flag was folded and put away in November and has not flown since. Some days I think of putting it back, that it is representative of much more than what we see on the news.... I don't wish to start some political discussion but would like suggestions on an alternative flag that says I'm proud to be an American yet don't support the changes I'm seeing.

[Robin Hickman]

Hello, GenMom !

Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums !


I'm not really "into" political discussions myself.


There are any number of "alternative" flags to fly. But do you really want to ???

If I may be so bold, I would like to suggest that, whether you know it or not, you probably already have the answer to your questions deep inside of you.

Is your decision (whether or not to proudly fly your American Flag) based on "politics" or is it based on "patriotism"?

When you so "proudly fly" your American Flag, is flying that Flag based on how you FEEL about your country or how you FEEL about who's in the White House?

Do you "Proudly Fly" your American Flag because it is the "Right Thing To Do", or only because the "right political party" is in power?

Do you fly your Flag because you're patriotic or because you're political?

Is your decision to fly or not to fly your American Flag based on the ever changing and shifting political winds or the solid Constitutional bedrock that provides the foundation that our nation was built on?

Are YOU a deep-down, dyed-in-the-wool, 24/7/365, do-or-die, "We must all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately", 100%, FULL-TIME PATRIOT ???

Or are you a "summer soldier" and a "sunshine patriot" ?

Politics or Patriotism? Patriotism or politics?

As I said at the beginning, you probably already have the answers inside of you.


Thank You for bringing your question to our forums !!!


Robin Hickman

PS. For the record, I am an "Independent" voter. Here in Oregon I am registered as what is known as an "un-affiliated" or "non-affiliated" voter. In other words, I do NOT belong to ANY political party.

[genmom]

Originally Posted by Robin Hickman

Hello, GenMom !

Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums !


I'm not really "into" political discussions myself.


There are any number of "alternative" flags to fly. But do you really want to ???

If I may be so bold, I would like to suggest that, whether you know it or not, you probably already have the answer to your questions deep inside of you.

Is your decision (whether or not to proudly fly your American Flag) based on "politics" or is it based on "patriotism"?

When you so "proudly fly" your American Flag, is flying that Flag based on how you FEEL about your country or how you FEEL about who's in the White House?

Do you "Proudly Fly" your American Flag because it is the "Right Thing To Do", or only because the "right political party" is in power?

Do you fly your Flag because you're patriotic or because you're political?

Is your decision to fly or not to fly your American Flag based on the ever changing and shifting political winds or the solid Constitutional bedrock that provides the foundation that our nation was built on?

Are YOU a deep-down, dyed-in-the-wool, 24/7/365, do-or-die, "We must all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately", 100%, FULL-TIME PATRIOT ???

Or are you a "summer soldier" and a "sunshine patriot" ?

Politics or Patriotism? Patriotism or politics?

As I said at the beginning, you probably already have the answers inside of you.


Thank You for bringing your question to our forums !!!


Robin Hickman

PS. For the record, I am an "Independent" voter. Here in Oregon I am registered as what is known as an "un-affiliated" or "non-affiliated" voter. In other words, I do NOT belong to ANY political party.

Robin,
You know I think my problem is I fly it because of how I feel about my country and all the freedoms (and fights for them) it represents. But I also want to make a statement that I'm a patriot who sees those freedoms eroding. Oh I know there are a lot of ways to make a statement. I frequent several of the political blogs and have many "discussions" with family and friends. I don't see it as a decision between "summer soldier" or "hang together". I see it more as taking a stand and supporting all it stands for, in this case by not flying it. Several neighbors have asked what happened to it after being so used to seeing it and a conversation pursues on the why of it. But at the same time I miss that little heart zap I'd get watching it flutter in the wind. You're right that my gut is telling me to get it out of the closet. What brought it to a head was this afternoon I heard Lee Greenwood singing God Bless the USA and all the reasons he sings about are still there and going strong. HOw would you make a statement about not liking the direction our country is going if you think it is eroding the very freedoms the flag stands for?

PS I'm registered Republican but am thinking of going independent as I don't like what either main party is doing. Here in Kentucky you can't vote in the primary except for the party you're registered with.

[Robin Hickman]

Greetings GenMom !


First, before anything else, I need to apologize for NOT seeing your 2nd posting in this thread. IF I had seen it earlier, I would have answered it earlier! SORRY about that !!!


Hmmmm..... Yes, I can see how you are torn. Thank you for clarifying things in your 2nd entry.

So, IF I'm understanding you correctly, the "patriotic" you is telling you to fly your Flag, and the "political" you is telling you not to. Yes? No? "Close enough..."?

My position (opinion) is that the American Flag (and flying it) is about "patriotism" and not about "politics". I know that sometimes it can be a little difficult to tell them apart. While "patriotism" rarely masquerades as "politics", "politics" very often masquerades as "patriotism" !!!

There are MANY ways to express one's Patriotism and the BEST way, I think, is by flying the Flag! And there are many, many ways to express one's political views and the best one, I think, is by being an active, educated voter and VOTING!


AND... I think we may have found that there may be a "solution" to your "fly/don't fly" dilemma!


QUESTION : When you DO fly your Flag, WHERE do you fly it from?

Do you fly your American Flag from a 20'-30' flagpole in your front yard, or from a 6' pole angled out from your front porch ???


IF you have a nice, tall, free-standing flagpole out in the middle (or elsewhere) of your front yard, then the "solution" is to fly TWO FLAGS !!!

IF you use a "home" Flag kit to fly your Flag, then the "solution" might be a little harder to come by. In this case the "solution" would be to add a 2nd Flag "kit" to fly the 2nd Flag. Of course, this would only work IF you have the room for the 2nd kit.

[ BTW : When I use the term "Home Flag Kit", I mean a "kit" that contains an American Flag, a 5-6' pole (usually a 2-3 piece aluminum one), two connectors (Flag-to-pole), and a bracket (that holds the flagpole) that is attached to your house or the front porch. There are "flag-less" kits available that contain only the "hardware. ]


SO..... IF the "TWO FLAG" solution is a "workable" one for you, then that will probably bring us back to a form of your original question, won't it?

"Which flag should be used as the SECOND Flag???"


Welcome back to "Square ONE" !!! ( Okay, okay, all joking aside..... )


My recommendation for your second Flag would be one of the United States of America's "Historical Flags". You know, like the Gadsen Flag, "Don't Tread On Me" (with the COILED rattlesnake); or the Gonzales Flag of 1835, "Come And Take It" (with the Cannon & Star). There is quite a variety of "historical" flags to choose from. Or, I suppose you could even put up a "Republican Party" flag if you wanted to. How about a "POW/MIA" flag to help everybody keep things in perspective regardless of their politics?


I don't know if any of this will help you or not. Only you can decide that.


Again, I apologize for not responding sooner. IF I'd seen it sooner, I would have responded sooner. Especially since Friday (May 15th) was "Peace Officers' Memorial Day", and Saturday (May 16th) was "Armed Forces Day".


If there is anything else Flag-related we can help you with, or you have any additional questions, or you just want to say, Hi!", PLEASE let us know !!!


Independently Yours,

Robin Hickman

[Robin Hickman]

Hey, GenMom !


I was wondering if you think that the "TWO FLAG" solution might work for you. Let us know, won't you ???


Robin Hickman

[genmom]

Sorry for the delay. Live in Kentucky and strawberries are in so have been picking and processing. Yummm.

Can I fit 2 flags on a 20' pole? Thinking maybe the National and a Gadsen. Only thing I don't like about the Gadsen is it's one sided.

Brenda

[Robin Hickman]

Hi, Brenda !

Can you fly two flags from a 20' pole? SURE! If they're the right size!

There's a general rule-of-thumb regarding the Flag-to-flagpole ratio. The length of the Flag (from head end to fly end) "should" be 1/4 to 1/3 the height of the flagpole. Part of the reason for that ratio has to do with the "visual aesthetics", and part is due to the practicality of flying the Flag at half-staff.

Using that 1/4 to 1/3 "guideline, "your U.S. Flag "should" be either 3'x5' or 4'x6'. Your second Flag "should" be the same size OR one size smaller (preferred) than the U.S. Flag for the same two reasons mentioned above.

If your U.S. Flag is 3'x5', then your 2nd Flag should be 2.5'x4'.
If your U.S. Flag is 4'x6', then your 2nd Flag should be 3'x5'.

QUOTE : "Thinking maybe the National and a Gadsen. Only thing I don't like about the Gadsen is it's one sided."

I have seen "two-sided" Gadsens for sale, but there are at least two "problems" with them. They are, as near as I can remember, usually made by sewing together two single-sided Flags back-to-back. The result is they are twice as expensive, and they are twice as heavy so they don't really "fly" very well.

It's your front yard, your flagpole, and your Flags, so it's your choice, Brenda!

BTW : Remember, this coming Monday, May 25th, is Memorial Day. It is the day to commemorate and honor those who have fallen while in service to our country !

Let us know how it all turns out !

Robin Hickman

[Robin Hickman]

Hi, Brenda !

Another apology and a correction from me.....


I need to apologize to you again and correct a "spelling" error I made (numerous times!) regarding the "Gadsen" flag.

The correct name and the correct spelling is G-A-D-S-D-E-N, as in Gadsden Flag. I did NOT mean to lead you down the "garden path".

Also, I've just spent over an hour trying to find a double-reverse, or "double-sided", Gadsden Flag WITHOUT success! I've even tried 5 or 6 different "search combinations" on Google without success. So I MIGHT have been mistaken when I said that you could buy a double-sided Gadsden Flag. I'm NOT saying that they don't exist, I'm just saying that I have NOT YET been able to find one !!!

BTW : If you want to buy a Gadsden Flag (single reverse) on-line, here's where I recommend you go : http://www.cvsflags.com/gadsden.cfm

So..... WHAT is the difference between "Single Reverse" and "Double-Sided" (Double Reverse) Flags ?

Read what Annin & Co. has to say about it UNDER my name and ABOVE my Signature !!!

Again, sorry about the mix-up !!!

Robin "OOPS!" Hickman

===============================================

Single Reverse vs. Double Sided

Most of our US military flags, both indoor and outdoor, are available as single reverse or double-sided. In order to avoid confusion about what these terms mean and which flag will work best for you, here's a detailed explanation along with the pros and cons of each style:

Single Reverse

Put simply, a single reverse flag has a single layer of material, plus the design shows equally on both the front and the back. The design on the back of the flag however, is a mirror-image, or reversed. So if the design contains text, it will read backwards.

Just about every military, state, and international—in fact, just about any flag you can think of—is made as single reverse. And single reverse is standard issue from every flag maker, large or small. There are some very good reasons for making flags this way.

One reason is economical. Modern flags, particularly those with any sort of complexity to the design, are dyed, as opposed to printed or silk-screened. The dying process infuses the fabric with the color—the dye is actually soaked right through the material—so that the design can be seen equally well on both sides.

To make a flag where the text, if it has any, reads correctly on both sides would require the flag maker to sew two flags back-to-back. That means that the cost is going to be significantly greater.

Another reason is that single reverse flags fly better than double sided flags because they're lighter. If you're planning on flying your flag outdoors, consider this: a flag that is flying well is in constant motion, making it difficult to read anyway. And a flag that is too heavy to fly will be unreadable because the fabric is bunched together. There are so few double-sided flags made that the chances are almost certain that the next flag you see will be a single reverse.

Double-Sided

Most folks are under the impression that double sided means that a flag's design can be seen on both sides. The truth is that a flag's design can be seen on both sides of both single reverse and double sided flags. The difference is that the design will be seen "correctly" on both sides of a double sided flag. In other words, if there is any text or numbers in the design, it will read correctly on both sides of the flag.

Of course, there is a price that must be paid for a double sided flag, both monetarily and performance wise. In most cases, making a double sided flag involves sewing two flags back-to-back. In addition, an insert material must be sandwiched between the two flags to prevent light from penetrating. This extra layer makes it so that when you look at the flag, you're not also seeing the shadows from the flag on the other side.

Three layers of material means that a double sided flag is three times heavier than a single reverse flag, and that means it's going to take a lot more wind to get it to fly. Three layers also means that a lot of additional cost has been added, hence the higher price tag.

The rule of thumb is this: If it's absolutely necessary that text read correctly on both sides, choose a double sided flag. One great example is an indoor flag for parade use. In the close quarters of ceremonial use, where spectators can easily see what's on the flag, it's probably important to buy a double sided flag.


================================================

[Robin Hickman]

Hi, GenMom/Brenda !


I'm afraid that I have some sad news. I have spent another 6-7 hours searching my bookmarks and the internet trying to find a "double-sided" Gadsden Flag and I have been totally UN-successful. About the only "positive thing to come out of my search is that I found that there were 7 or 8 Flag-related "Bookmarks" that had changed or were no good.

The only "glimmer" of hope that I can show you is the Gettysburg Flag Works whose motto is : "We have it, We''ll get it, or We'' make it for you!".

http://www.gettysburgflag.com/

I apologize for mis-leading you. I thought for sure that there were some double-sided Gadsden Flags "Out There" somewhere.

Robin Hickman

[genmom]

Originally Posted by Robin Hickman

Hi, Brenda !

Can you fly two flags from a 20' pole? SURE! If they're the right size!

There's a general rule-of-thumb regarding the Flag-to-flagpole ratio. The length of the Flag (from head end to fly end) "should" be 1/4 to 1/3 the height of the flagpole. Part of the reason for that ratio has to do with the "visual aesthetics", and part is due to the practicality of flying the Flag at half-staff.

Using that 1/4 to 1/3 "guideline, "your U.S. Flag "should" be either 3'x5' or 4'x6'. Your second Flag "should" be the same size OR one size smaller (preferred) than the U.S. Flag for the same two reasons mentioned above.

If your U.S. Flag is 3'x5', then your 2nd Flag should be 2.5'x4'.
If your U.S. Flag is 4'x6', then your 2nd Flag should be 3'x5'.

QUOTE : "Thinking maybe the National and a Gadsen. Only thing I don't like about the Gadsen is it's one sided."

I have seen "two-sided" Gadsens for sale, but there are at least two "problems" with them. They are, as near as I can remember, usually made by sewing together two single-sided Flags back-to-back. The result is they are twice as expensive, and they are twice as heavy so they don't really "fly" very well.

It's your front yard, your flagpole, and your Flags, so it's your choice, Brenda!

BTW : Remember, this coming Monday, May 25th, is Memorial Day. It is the day to commemorate and honor those who have fallen while in service to our country !

Let us know how it all turns out !

Robin Hickman

Gave in and the National flag was out Memorial Day. I thought of making the Gadsden flag myself and ran into the problems you mentioned. I'm a pretty good seamstress but no Betsy Ross. The problem is the "light blocking" material as most of it is pretty heavy stuff, at least what I find that is made for lining drapes. Some where I have a military emergency blanket that is kind of foil on one side and OD on the other. Very light and wondering if the "foil" might work. In the middle of a kitchen remodel and can't find anything right now. Will post if it works.
Brenda