American Flags in the Trash

[hershey]

i went looking for some other flag info and found this thread, i just want to thanx whoever is moderating this and investing the time.

my occupation is a garbage man and i have accumulated allot of flags from you know where. my crisis is around the patriotic holidays i litterally get 100's of the little stick flags and truelly can't collect them all and complete my job. i have drawn the line on rescueing only the flags that have been "flown" or configured to be flown and have let all the "trinket" flags get put in the truck and buried at the landfill. thoughts/comments?

[Peter Ansoff]

Greetings, Hershey! Welcome to the forum.

The basic idea beind the flag disposal rules, I think, is that flags should not be seen in a setting that isn't appropriate for the symbol of the nation. There's nothing wrong with disposing of a retired flag in the trash, as long as it is securely contained in an opaque box or bag.

Ideally, it would be good to bag up the little stick flags before disposing of them. However, I suspect that that just would not be practical in your case. It sounds like you are doing everything you can to acknowledge the spirit of the flag code.

Do you see a significant number of discarded "real" flags?

Best regards,

Peter Ansoff

[hershey]

i average several dozen a year of "real" flags that are discarded in plain sight to me, i do not open bags or boxes etc. looking for them, just what i stumble across. it is also fairly common to find flags in my personal truck that my coworkers have rescued. most are still servicable and i return them to service, but i have a growing pile that will probably get turned over to a veterans group or the boy scouts. bibles is another one of my "pet peves".

i service about 4000 homes weekly in a above average income community, a pretty mixed group, traditional white and black families, but a large percentage of eastern families mixed in.

i have no plans of not doing anything different unless someone were to say it is wrong in relation to the original owners wishes.

[Robin Hickman]

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Hello, Hershey, and welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums !!!

NOTE To Peter Ansoff : I believe that this is a very important subject. Given Hershey's occupation and his/her unique first-hand perspective, I think that this particular portion of this thread should be moved to its OWN thread in this particular Forum.

I've always had a "tough time" at not being able to "save" some American Flags that were in serious need of a respectful retirement. But that has been, at most, maybe only once or twice a year. I don't know how I'd be able to manage two or more DOZEN times a year !!!


Good Luck & Godspeed, Hershey !!!


Robin Hickman
Eugene, Oregon, USA
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[NAVA1974]

i have a growing pile that will probably get turned over to a veterans group or the boy scouts.

i have no plans of not doing anything different unless someone were to say it is wrong in relation to the original owners wishes.

Hershey,
Your plan to give the flags to a veteran's or scout organization is an excellent one, and very much in line with the recommendations of the United States Flag Code.

However, I have mixed feelings as to whether to advise you to do this quietly (as the original Flag Code specified that the worn flags should be destroyed "privately") or suggest you get some publicity in the local newspaper(s). Apparently a number of your clients are unaware of their duty to properly dispose of flags. A publicized but respectful flag-burning ceremony may be a useful lesson.

I do have another suggestion, however. Ask the Veterans or Scouts to help you print a flyer that you can tape on to each trash can where you find a discarded flag. In the flyer you can tell people how they should properly dispose of their flags. Include a phone number of the organization that agrees to accept the flags for disposition.

Nick A
Columbia Maryland

[Peter Ansoff]

I believe that this is a very important subject. Given Hershey's occupation and his/her unique first-hand perspective, I think that this particular portion of this thread should be moved to its OWN thread in this particular Forum.

I agree, Robin -- done!

Peter A.

[hershey]

a couple of sticky points to my rescue efforts. it is technically illegal to dig through someones garbage. the federal law is aimed more at identity theft and stuff like that, rather than what i am doing. i could get in some trouble at my job if it came to light, especially if i made a big deal out of it. my company is reactive, not proactive about enforcing such matters, so not a major concern for me. i am content to just do it privately, and for me it is more a matter of i raised my right hand and did my time and it wasn't so you could treat my flag that way. i do wish i could find a way to get the word out w/ out being identified, even if all they did was fold the flag and put it on top of the pile so i found it before it got mixed in w/ all the other garbage.

[Robin Hickman]

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I believe that in the vast majority (90+%) of these kind of situations, it is merely a case of people's functional ignorance or intellectual disconnect. Even though they might have heard at some time(s) in their lives that old worn-out Flags should be burned, they don't automatically equate it with THEIR Flag.

The few times when I've run across someone throwing away their old Flag and pointed out what they were "supposed" to do with it, invariably (every single time) it turned into a response of: "OMG! You're right. What was I thinking?!?!"

Educational and/or enlightenment efforts need to be on-going and persistent. There are ways to promote "Flag Education" that can be done anonymously. A few phone calls can do it.

You can probably "get away with" doing it full-face and on camera too. Law enforcement agencies on all levels know that stuff that people throw out that is in publc view and in the public domain is no longer theirs. And as such is subject to investigation without a warrant.

On the other hand, what if your company would like to provide a public service and get some FREE publicity for doing so? What if you could provide the "spark" that lights a fire under them to publicize the "problem" and offer a solution, which in turn could serve to educate the public about it?

Can you see how that might be done?


Robin Hickman
Eugene, Oregon, USA
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[veteransflagdepot]

It's a shame that most schools no longer teach our kids proper Flag Etiquette or won't allow veterans in the classroom to do so. When I was a kid we used to argue at school over who was going to put up or take down the flag each day. Ah the good old days.

[NAVA1974]

When I was a kid we used to argue at school over who was going to put up or take down the flag each day. Ah the good old days.

When I was in elementary school we would have an outdoor assembly, a parade of sorts, where each of us would carry an American flag. I belive we did this just before Memorial Day or Columbus day. After 45 years the details are a bit cloudy.

When my kids were in Middle School I made presentations to their classes on the history of the American flag. Clearly they had never heard any of this before, because after I had finished giving them as straight a story as I could, one student wrote in her thank-you note "I didn't know that Betsy Ross made the first flag!" Now, can you imagine any vexillologist worth his salt would ever say anything about Betsy Ross Griscom Claypoole that would give the impression that there was any truth to that legend?



I grew up in northeastern Massachusetts where we had a tremendous sense of history. Our town was settled in in 1640's, and we were within an hour's drive of Boston, Lexington, Concord, and Salem. So a love of history is second nature to me.

Nick A
Columbia Maryland