Carrying a Flag in Parade Horizontally

[Mikemenn]

In another great post, you all answered the question of carrying a rather large
flag in a parade horizontally. I'm not sure if the same person is from my home
town (Marietta, GA) but the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts did just that. The
flag stretches across a 4 lane street and took some 50 Scouts to carry.

I believe the general consensus in that post was that although the flag code
states a flag shouldn't be carried in this manner, that the flag code is out of
date to the desire of carrying the flag this manner.

So let's say for argument that we continue to carry the flag this way. My
question is, how should it be carried? Should the blue field go first or the stripes?
And should the blue field be on the marcher's left or right?

Thanks.

[Robin Hickman]

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Howdy, Mikemenn !

Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums !


Yes, there was (IS) an earlier thread in this forum about that very subject !

http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/correct-way-carry-large-flag-parade-6151.html

While it was duly noted in that thread that the Flag should never be carried "flat or horizontally" [ United States Code; Title 4; Chapter 1 (The Flag); Section 8 (Respect For Flag); sub-section (c.) "The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free." ], it was also suggested that the "U.S. Flag Code" might be in need of revision as it pretains to that sub-section.

Unfortunately, nobody seemed to mention the concept as to WHY sub-"Section 8 (c)" was there and HOW it would connect with the fact that almost all parades have spectators ("observers") on BOTH sides of the streets along the parade route.

IF they had, they might have remembered Section 8 (a.): "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.". Meaning, while the "observers" on ONE SIDE of the street would be watching the flag pass them in a "proper" way, the "observers" on the OTHER SIDE of the street would be forced to view the Flag passing them UPSIDE-DOWN !!!


BUT..... for the sake of argument (or debate), let's consider your question.

QUOTE : "So let's say for argument that we continue to carry the flag this way. My question is, how should it be carried? Should the blue field go first or the stripes? And should the blue field be on the marcher's left or right?"

Okay, okay. I know, I know.

There are actually THREE questions in the quotation for us to consider. But, for the sake of this "debate", let's just consider them to be "one", okay?

IF we are assuming that the flag is "flying down the street" (lengthwise) as it is being carried, then it should be leading with its "UNION". That is, the Flag's "Union", or canton (the blue rectangle containing the white stars), would be along the Flag's leading edge as it progressed down (or up) the street. It would be "flying" on the street in much the same way it would be flying "in the wind" on a flagpole.

So, as we are carrying the Flag "flying up (or down) the street" with its Blue Union in the lead and its Stripes following behind, the last part of our "debate" needs to be addressed: "And should the blue field be on the marcher's left or right?" (Emphasis Added).

I don't know.

I don't even know if the "marchers" are the most "important" part of the "equation", so to speak.

Maybe they are, OR maybe it might be where and how the "Reviewing Stand" is situated (which side or the street), OR which side of the street will the most people be gathered?

OR..... Does the "MAIN" path of the parade run in a North-South (South-North) or East-West (West-East) direction?

HUH???

Assuming that we have successfully established that the Flag's Union should lead the way, we must now decide on HOW to determine WHICH SIDE the Union should be on (Front-LEFT or Front-RIGHT). I believe that just might come down to EITHER the need to (#1) establish WHO the "observers" are, OR (#2) which direction the Flag's Union should be pointing the majority of the time and/or length of the parade.


#1 "WHO"


Regardless of "WHO" we might select as the "observers" in this debate, let's see what the "Flag Code" has to say on the subject.


United States Code; Title 4; Chapter 1 (The Flag); Section 7 (Position and Manner of Display); sub-section (i) : "When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street." (Emphasis Added)


So we have established that the Union should be to the "Observers' Left".


So "who" are the "primary" observers? The "marchers" (the Flag's carriers), the VIP's in the reviewing stand, the sides of the streets with the most people (cameras), or "what"?

I don't know.

IF the "primary" observers are the Flag's carriers ("marchers"), then the Union belongs in the "Front-LEFT" position. To the majority of the Flag's carriers (excluding those on the leading edge), the Flag would appear to be (for all intents & purposes) "vertical" with the Union in the "upper left-hand corner" as they proceeded along the parade route.


IF the "primary" observers are in the "reviewing stand", then it would depend on which side of the street (parade) the stand is. [NOTE: We could use the same observations and decisions with regard to which side of the street (parade) had the most people ("observers").]

IF the reviewing stand (the observers) is on the parade's "LEFT" side, then the Flag's Union should be in the "front-RIGHT" position. Thus, as the Flag passed in review, from the observers' right-to-left, the Flag would appear to be "upright", flying "forward" (to the left), with the Union in the upper-LEFT position. A-OK.

On the other hand.....

IF the reviewing stand is on the parade's "RIGHT" side, or you have the most parade watchers (observers) on the "RIGHT" side of the parade, the Union should be in the "front-LEFT" position. Thus, as the Flag passed in review, from the observers' left-to-right, the Flag would appear to be "upright", flying "forward" (to the right), with the Union in the upper-RIGHT position. OOPS! Although NOT 100% A-OK, it would be the same kind of compromise as is made for Flag Patches made for the RIGHT shoulder of military uniforms (primarily the U.S. Army, I believe).


#2 "DIRECTION"

So, if we do NOT use WHO & WHERE the "observers" are to decide where the Flag's Union should be, then maybe we could use the "DIRECTION" that the Union would be heading in "most" (majority) of the parade's route or distance. We'll use the Flag Code's Section 7 (j) to help guide us.

United States Code; Title 4; Chapter 1 (The Flag); Section 7 (Position and Manner of Display); sub-section (j) : "When the flag is displayed over the middle of the street, it should be suspended vertically with the union to the north in an east and west street or to the east in a north and south street." (Emphasis Added)

While "our" parade Flag will be on the move in the "middle of a street" and NOT "suspended vertically" over the middle of a street, I think that we can still use PART of the provisions of this sub-section. Mainly, that the Flag's Union should point to the NORTH or to the EAST.

Assuming that the Flag's Union is leading the way as the Flag proceeds along the parade route and the MAJORITY of the Parade's ROUTE is:

East-West Street; EAST-bound: Union leading in the NORTH-East corner.
East-West Street; WEST-bound: Union leading in the NORTH-West corner.
North-South Street; NORTH-bound: Union leading in the North-EAST corner.
North-South Street; SOUTH-bound: Union leading in the South-EAST corner.

Everything should be "OK" as long as the parade route is on ONLY ONE street going in ONLY ONE direction.

But what IF the parade changes directions two or more times along its route?

Or what IF the parade's route isn't EXACTLY North, South, East, or West ???

WHAT THEN ???

Heck! I don't know!

MAYBE..... ???

United States Code; Title 4; Chapter 1 (The Flag); Section 7 (Position and Manner of Display); sub-section (o) : "When the flag is suspended across a corridor or lobby in a building with only one main entrance, it should be suspended vertically with the union of the flag to the observer's left upon entering. If the building has more than one main entrance, the flag should be suspended vertically near the center of the corridor or lobby with the union to the north, when entrances are to the east and west or to the east when entrances are to the north and south. If there are entrances in more than two directions, the union should be to the east."


SIGH.....

So there you have it. A few things to take into consideration when discussing (debating) the "protocols" associated with carrying the American Flag "flat" or "horizontally" (above and parallel to the ground) in a parade. Just remember that when the Flag is carried in a parade in that position (flat), and no matter where the union is, the flag will always appear to be UPSIDE DOWN to approximately HALF of the "observers".


SO..... Maybe it's just a few things to take into consideration the next time you're wondering why there's such a thing as : United States Code; Title 4; Chapter 1 (The Flag); Section 8 (Respect For Flag); sub-section (c.) "The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.".


Or..... Maybe Not.....


Robin Hickman
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[Mikemenn]

Good lordy, that's a long answer: How to Write Succinctly

In our Parade there were no more on one side of the street than the other. So that part of the equation doesn't factor in.

The reason I was driven to find an answer was that when shown on the local TV station, the Union was at the "bottom" of the screen. We led with the Union on the right side of the marchers as were the TV camera. So on TV, the flag looked "upside down".

I'm going to suggest next year that the Union lead (as it did this year) but turned over so it is on the left side of the marchers and will thus look "right side up" on camera.

Thanks for taking the time for the attempt. The code needs to be updated.

Mikemenn

[bsagptx]

You stated the flag code should be revised, just because others do it does not make it right. when carrying the flag in a hoizontal position it shows disrespect to those who have died serving our country. the flag should only be horizontal when draped over a coffen. also when you carry it this way, your holding all four sides and she."the Flag" is no longer FREE she is bind, restrain, and the US Flag should always flow Free.
To show a flag in a parade have it on a staff and carry it. this can be done with more than one if you wish for all to carry.

[Mikemenn]

Anytime you use the word "should" it's made up, fiction, just an idea people had and a lot adhere to.

"She" is a piece of cloth that represents something. "She" represents a nation, a people, a freedom. She is not the thing that is honored, it's the people, the soldiers, the Americans that are honored.

Someone in the past said, "let's not carry it horizontally and say that it's disrespectful" for this or that reason.

So I'm saying as are our Scouts and leaders right now, today, "let's carry it horizontally because it's so big we can't do it otherwise and it'll still mean it's a symbol of our nation and people will still see it in the parade and still be patriotic and still think of our soldiers and our nation and still be proud to be Americans."

Things mean what we want them to mean.
You stick with living in the past. I'm choosing to live in the present. And we'll be the better nation for it.

[bsagptx]

As a Scout there is a book called "Our Flag" it's in all the scout shops and it shows scouts holding the flag horizontal and it states this is wrong. but thats the National Boy Scouts stand. anyone can do anything they want, show respect or Not.

[Mikemenn]

We show the flag with utmost respect. It doesn't touch the ground, it's shown honor, we ask people to stand as it passes. Maybe you don't understand the size of this flag. It's impossible to carry in the vertical position in the parade. An averaged size flag that can be carried vertically, we would do it.

Again, some men have said it's disrespectful. Some men don't see it's that way. It's not "right or wrong", it's custom. It's opinion. Obviously, it's getting your lather up so I suggest you let it go.

[bsagptx]

I do understand the size and thats my point. But some choose not to follow traditions. I will let it go. You can have your point of view and make changes that suites you.

[Mikemenn]

I see you joined just today and that the extent of your posting is this 2 year old thread. I'm honored.

[NAVA1974]

I don't have an opinion as to whether or not the Flag Code needs to be revised to accommodate carrying flags in that manner during parades, but I do know that one reason this was seen as disrespectful to the writers of the original Flag Code in 1923 was that it was common practice for men to throw their hats in the air in clebration, and/or toss their hats into the horizontal flag. THAT was seen as disrespectful because the flag was "being used as a receptacle" which was clearly prohibited by the Flag Code.

Would that be a similar concern today? Since men do not universally wear hats as they did in the early 20th C it is clearly less of an issue now.

What is the perception of a huge flag being paraded this way? Is it seen as "super patriotic?" Is it showing more honor to the flag than a single flag carried by the Color Guard? Does it get more attention than a single staffed USA flag among other flags? It certainly is much more conspicuous when viewed from above. But where are most observers? If there is no reviewing stand then parade watchers only see dozens of people holding the edge of the flag.

This is one of those questions that will continue to generate discussion on this forum, no doubt.


Nick A
Columbia Maryland