[Robin Hickman]

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Greetings, roverindy !

Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums !


SHORT Answer : Go with either 10' (half the 20' pole) OR 12' (half the 24' pole) flagpole spacing.


L-O-N-G _ A-N-S-W-E-R :

I don't know how much room you have to "play" with, as far as the spacing of the flagpoles and the over-all area they would take up. I don't even know if the Flags are going to be in a "home" or "commercial" setting. So, the non-expert advice I give you here might have to be "adjusted" or "tweaked" a little.

Assuming that you actually TAKE my advice, of course !!!

If I understand your pole placement options, you are currently looking at three (3) options. I think you might have at least one more that you might not have thought of (I'll list it as #4).

#1 - A single row (straight line) of six (6) Flags.
#2 - A circle of five (5) Flags surrounding the U.S. Flag in the middle.
#3 - A Semi-Circle of five (5) Flags supporting the U.S. Flag in the center.
#4 - (This is actually kind of a blending of #1 & #3) A straight line (single row) of five (5) Flags with the U.S. Flag "Front & Center".

My first piece of advice would be to look at the "spacing" of the flagpoles. I would suggest a spacing that is "half the height" of the poles, so that there would be either ten feet (10') or twelve feet (12') between poles. Or more precisely, between the MAIN pole (24') that will be holding the U.S. Flag and the "supporting" poles (20' each).

#1 - If you've read any of the postings here associated with "where" to place or post the U.S. Flag in relation to other flags and objects, then you're probably already familiar with the idea that the U.S. Flag is always posted at its "own right" (the viewer's left). So, with a single line (or row) of flags, the U.S. Flag would be at its "own right" (viewers' left) and all the other flags would be to its left (viewers' right).

I'll try to illustrate using a straight line as the front "wall" of you home or business and a line of "X12345" as the Flags. The vantage point of the "viewers" is out on sidewalk and street looking at the Flags in front of your building. (The big, bold RED "X" marks the spot of the U.S. Flag, and the blue numerals are the military flags)

YOUR __ HOME __ OR __ BUSINESS
______X 1 2 3 4 5
"viewers" - "viewers" - "viewers"


SEE ???

[ NOTE : I believe that the order in which the Military Branch flags are placed is by their "Official" date of creation, with the oldest being closest to the National Flag. I know there is, somewhere, an "official" list of the EXACT order they go in. I just don't remember WHERE that list is! ]


#2 - The CIRCLE of five flags surrounding the U.S. Flag in the center might also be considered to be in the shape of a 5-pointed star. At any rate, the five flagpoles will be separated by 72 degrees of "arc" in your circle. (Circle = 360 degrees; 360 divided by 5 = 72 degrees.) As noted above, I am NOT sure of which order the Military Flags should be arranged.

Using the 10' & 12' separations as your "radius", you can double those to get the diameter(s) of your full circle(s). Then take a long (25' minimum) tape measure to the flag's site and mark everything off to get a more "accurate" estimate of the project's size.


#3 - The SEMI-CIRCLE of five flags. If the Military flagpoles are arranged in a FULL semi-circle (180 degrees of arc), then the flagpoles will be separated by 45 degrees of arc: #1 @ 00 degrees, #2 @45 degrees, #3 @90 degrees, #4 @135 degrees, and #5 @180 degrees.

{ SEE PHOTOS BELOW }

The "order" or placements of the military flags would be the same as if they were in a straight line, with the order based on "seniority" with flag of the most "senior" branch to its "own right (viewers' left).

If your Semi-Circle is going to be LESS than a FULL semi-circle (180 degrees), try not to go under 120 degrees of arc. The fewer degrees of arc there are, the more it will appear to be a straight line.


#4 - Straight line of five (5) flags with the U.S. Flag "Front & Center".

Combination of options #1 & #3. Same rules apply and the illustration is similar to the one shown in option #1 (ie.The big, bold RED "X" marks the spot of the U.S. Flag, and the blue numerals are the military flags) :

YOUR __ HOME __ OR __ BUSINESS
__________1 2 3 4 5
_________ ___X
"viewers" - "viewers" - "viewers"


I don't know if this will help you or not. But here are a couple of photos that I took the morning of this past Memorial Day (5-25-2009) of the semi-circular arrangement of flagpoles that the Springfield, Oregon VFW Post #3965 has.

The center flagpole, the one with the BIG American Flag and smaller POW/MIA flag, is TWICE as high as the six flagpoles that are arranged in a semi-circle behind it. That is so that when the American Flag is flown at "half-staff", it will still be above the others.


VFW#3965-2009-05-25.JPG :
VFW#3965-2009-05-25.JPG




VFW#3965-2009-05-25(2).JPG :
VFW#3965-2009-05-25(2).JPG


I sure hopes this helps you and maybe some other people too !


Thank you for bringing your Flag-related question to our forums !!!


Robin Hickman

PS. I can't seem to get the illustrations to "line up" properly when this reply is posted. They are lined up "correctly" while I'm putting them together, but when it's posted they all get moved to the left-hand margin. I might try to "center the illustrations to see if that will work. If I am unable to do that, then you'll have to use your imaginations !!!

PPS. It didn't work, so I've used WHITE Underlines to separate things!
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[Chatti1218]

If I have 3 flag poles but one is taller than the others does the center one then hold the American Flag? If there are 3 flag poles the same height all in a row does the American Flag always fly on the right when looking at them or can it fly in the middle?

[Peter Ansoff]

Hello, Chatti!

If I have 3 flag poles but one is taller than the others does the center one then hold the American Flag?

Yes. Note that you don't want to do this if one of the other flags is a foreign national flag or the flag of an international organization like the UN or NATO. National flags should all be at the same height.

If there are 3 flag poles the same height all in a row does the American Flag always fly on the right when looking at them or can it fly in the middle?

Actually, the American flag goes on its own right, which is the left when you're facing the row of poles.

Peter Ansoff

[Chatti1218]

Thanks Peter,

Sorry I meant to say the left when I am looking at it which I know is the Flag "right".

What I have is a new County Courthouse. There are 3 flag poles they are setting. They want to make the one in the middle taller and fly the American Flag. To the left when looking at it they want to fly the State Flag and to the right they want to fly the County flag. Is this correct? These poles are being placed today and we want to make sure this is a correct way to display the flags. Once they are placed it will be too late so we want to get it right.

[Peter Ansoff]

They want to make the one in the middle taller and fly the American Flag. To the left when looking at it they want to fly the State Flag and to the right they want to fly the County flag. Is this correct?

Yes. Actually, the flag code is slightly ambiguous about this, but the custom seems to be that height takes precedence over right-to-left position, as it were. I have seen displays in which the highest pole was on the right, but I think putting it in the middle is the most attractive arrangement. The state flag takes precedence over the county flag, so if they are at the same height then the state flag should go on its own right (viewer's left) relative to the county flag.

Best,

Peter Ansoff

[iiimaf]

Robin:

"[ NOTE : I believe that the order in which the Military Branch flags are placed is by their "Official" date of creation, with the oldest being closest to the National Flag. I know there is, somewhere, an "official" list of the EXACT order they go in. I just don't remember WHERE that list is! ]"

You can find the answer to your note at this link Flag Frequently Asked Questions

It is a very long single page and the complete order of precedence of flags in the US is listed a little more than half way down the page. For the record, your initial thoughts are spot on.

[Peter Ansoff]

The precedence of the service flags is laid out in both Army and Air Force regulations (AR 840-10 and AFI 34-1201, respectively), which state that the precedence of the service flags is Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard. These regulations only apply to their respective services, of course, but they're good guidelines for general use. There is no reason in principle that all of the services would have to use the same order of precedence, but fortunately they do.

I'm not sure what the order of precedence was actually based on. It would be a bit of a stretch to fit it to the founding dates of the services, because there are a number of issues that would need to be sorted out. Other than the Army, which was established in June 1775 and has had a (more or less) continuous existence ever since, it's not easy to pin down the founding dates of the services. There are several problems:

1. The Navy and the Marine Corps both existed in some form during the Revolutionary War, but both were completely disbanded after the war ended. There are two dates that could plausibly be the "creation date" for the United States Navy as we know it: 27 March 1794, when Congress authorized the construction of six frigates, and 30 April 1798, when Congress established the Navy Department. (Before then, the War Department administered Naval affairs). However, the Navy celebrates its birthday on as 13 October 1775, when the Revolutionary War Continental Congress authorized procurement of two vessels to intercept British supply ships. Again, the Continental Navy that was created at that time ceased to exist after the war. Similarly, the Marines celebrate 10 November 1775 as their birthday, but the Marine Corps as we know it was not created until the 1790s.

2. The Air Force and the Coast Guard were both created fairly recently in their present forms (1947 and 1915 respectively). However, both were successors to organizations that had been around much longer. The Air Force descended from the Army Signal Corps Areonautical Division, which was created in 1907, while the Coast Guard originated with the Revenue Cuttter Service in 1790.

So -- if the Navy and the Marines recognize 13 October 1775 and 10 November 1775 as their respective birthdays, why do the Marines get precedence over the Navy? And why does the Air Force get precedence over the Coast Guard -- their founding dates are either 1947/1915 or 1907/1790, depending on which set you count, and either way the Coast Guard came first. And, why do the Navy and Marine Corps get to count predecessor organizations, but not the Coast Guard?

And, for that matter: June 1775 was when the Continental Congress agreed to take control of the troops raised by the individual colonies to bottle up the British in Boston. The Continental Army as such was not created until 1 January 1776, which would make it "junior" to both the Navy and the Marines . . . .

Peter Ansoff

[mknowlan]

Thanks for the great information and research on the flagpole placement subject Peter. We've installed many multiple flagpole sites, and we want to make sure that our customers are using proper etiquette when displaying their flags. You can see photos of multiple commercial flagpoles on our website as well at American Flag and Flagpole Co | flag poles | flag pole parts | flags| flagpoles