[Josey]

In case anyone was interested in seeing the Purple Heart Medal and documents that came with this flag I posted a few pics.

Josey

[Robin Hickman]

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TO Josey : EXCELLENT Documentation !!!


TO Nick : I understand what you and Peter have been saying, or at least I think I do. My point (such as it is) is that regardless of HOW the Stars came to be that color (oxidation/bleeding of the sizing used on the Stars or the dimming/fading of the original non-white color), I find it VERY interesting that the threads used to sew on the Stars remains SO white. That's all.

I would think that whatever turned those Stars that particular color would have had a similar "effect" on the white thread as well. But since it didn't, that's what drew my attention.

Maybe the pictures had the effect of re-inforcing Josey's first entry on the subject back on page two (entry #15). Specifically the last paragraph of that entry :

"Since these flags are rare and carry some value it wouldn't surprise me that someone may fake one to sell to an unsuspecting buyer. The real gold star casket flags are easy to identify by the fact that the stitching around the stars are white and the material will not glow under a black light."

I don't know what materials were used in the making of her Flag. While I may assume that the body of the Flag itself is either cotton or wool, the stars are probably cotton, and the thread to sew them onto the Union of the Flag is cotton, I really don't know enough about identifying the fabrics to register a valid opinion about them at this stage.

So, since I don't really know anything about that "stuff", all I can say is that the pictures sure are good and the thread to sew on the Stars sure is white!


Robin Hickman
Eugene, Oregon, USA
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[NAVA1974]

Robin,
If one follows my theory, it is the chemical treatment of the die cut stars that leads to the discoloration. (Treated with sizing to make them stiff enough to place accurately on the obverse of the canton.) There is no need for any such chemical treatment on the sheet of white cotton that is placed on the reverse of the canton that will eventually produce the stars on the back side, nor would the cotton sewing thread need to be treated the same way. Indeed, it appears that the sewing thread is treated with something that resists discoloration as it does not suffer the same fate as the portions of the white stripes that turn into golden star shadows.

Nick

[Robin Hickman]

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Hi, Nick !

Yes, I'm pretty sure I follow your theory, and Peter's hypothetical too. I am not arguing against either of them in any way, shape, or form. I just find it "interesting" that the pristine, white thread appears to be totally untouched by whatever caused the Stars' "discoloration" and "bleeding".


Robin

[skybluestoday]

I believe I, too, have one of these vintage gold-starred casket flags in my possession. I picked it up at a flea market when I was in high school back in the 1980s and have held onto it for over 25 years. Recently, when sifting through some boxes of old stuff to cull some items I could sell or get rid of, I came across it again.

The gold stars intrigued me, and a little bit of internet sleuthing brought me here. This particular flag shows the stitched gold stars on both sides, along with the clean white stitching. There is no manufacturer's edge stamp (unlike several of the vintage US-produced flags I have seen), which may bolster the flag's claim to a European pedigree.

I'm probably going to list it on eBay, but I thought I would check in and see if anyone has any fresh information on how valuable these are nowadays.

[Josey]

Let us know if you do post it on eBay. I would like to follow the auction. Maybe you will get some additional information about the flag from the people who frequent eBay and you could post that info here. Good luck with it.

Josey

[Josey]

I just did a quick eBay search and found a gold star flag listed. It is item number 120691703228 I don't know how to post a link or I would have done so to make it easier to find. The sellers listing does have some additional information some of which I have copied to here.

Josey

Based on comments received from inquirers to the Flags Of The World website over the past ten years, and confirmation of their existence by Whitney Smith, flags with gold stars were definitely used for caskets of servicemen who died in action in Europe toward the end of World War II or shortly thereafter - it seems to have been a short lived phenomenon, and that only for bodies returned from southern Germany, as I recall (but that was the American zone).

--- Rob Raeside, Director, Flags of the World website, 2-26-2010 (http://flagspot.net/flags/)

______________________________

My hometown legion has a goldstar american flag, and this is how it was explained to me....

During WWII out of the many flag companies that spung up during that time, one had the idea that flags that were draped over fallen soldiers coffins were given flags with gold stars, in line with the gold stars that we shown in the windows of family that had lost someone during the war.

According to the info that I have found, this was a very short lived practice, i haven't found anything confirming numbers, i was told that it could have been as few as a 150 gold-star flags were used for the fallen...again, that is just one set of numbers, it could have been more, but if that number is accurate, they are a very rare flag. As far as I can tell, the reason for such a short run was that someone in the gov't with clout decided that the flags weren't regulation, and couldn't be produced for any reason.

The color make look "stained" or "tan" at a first glance, but they are gold stars on the flag, especially when compared to the stripes. I am currently trying to compile any information on the gold-star american flags, they are a very special piece of American history.

--- "amvet gson," flag aficionado (http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/flag-with-gold-stars-1797.html)

Chanute cemetery holds mystery: gold-starred flags

CHANUTE, KS - Locked away in the chapel of Elmwood Cemetery are hundreds of burial flags of fallen U.S. veterans. Faded and worn, these flags represent a soldier's ultimate sacrifice.

While most of the flags look just like any other U.S flag, a few of the flags stand out from the rest. Everything else on the flags is geometrically correct, but the stars on seven flags are gold.

"A gentleman turned (a gold-starred flag) in this year for a member of his family, and my daughter-in-law Karen Madden found it and was curious about it," said Ardith Madden, chairman of the Avenue of Flags.

In an article Karen Madden found, retired historian Harold Langley from the Smithsonian's Flag Department speculated on the gold-starred flags.

Langley believed a small, French garment factory was contracted to make casket flags near the end of World War II, because the demand for the burial flags increased as the U.S. made a push through Germany during November 1944, resulting in thousands of casualties.

Langley speculated the management of the factory must have heard somewhere of the Gold Star Mothers and assumed that the stars of the flags were supposed to be gold if the flag was to be used as a casket flag.

Langley estimated about 500 of the gold-starred flags were made before the error was discovered and corrected. Because the need for the flags was so great, however, the gold-starred flags were distributed to the Signal Corps for use.

Jennifer Jones of the Museum of American History and a colleague of Langley, said the actual number of flags is unknown.

There could be more gold-starred flags at the Elmwood cemetery. Ardith Madden said a number of boxes haven't been gone through yet.

Whitney Smith, director of the Flag Research Center in Winchester, Mass., and author of 27 books on flags, isn't so sure about Langley's version.

Smith said no official documentation of the gold-starred flags exists, but he acknowledges that many variations of the U.S. flag do. Many of the stars are khaki-colored like the uniforms. Some of them were gold, others off-white.

In some flags, two-thirds of the stars were white while the others were gold.

Smith theorizes that the flags may have been made in Europe by Europeans unfamiliar with the U.S. flag, or by an American individual or officer who took the idea of using a gold star as a symbol of death in service. Smith believes that Langley's assertion that the gold-starred flags were made in France is possible.

France would certainly be a logical place from several standpoints, because of the number of Americans dying there, Smith said.

Jones said it is possible that a town commissioned the flags to be made with gold stars representing those who died in the war.

"These are strictly theories, and I don't think there will ever be a whole lot of proof or a definitive answer to all of this," Jones said.

--- The Wichita Eagle, Sunday, 7-10-2005

[NAVA1974]

Here's the link to the eBay flag:

ULTRARARE ANTIQUE US CASKET FLAG w/48 GOLD STARS 5x9.5 - eBay (item 120691703228 end time Mar-07-11 19:52:59 PST)

While there may have been burial flags made with gold stars, I stand my my position that the stars on the eBay flag (and all other "48 star flag with gold stars" that I've seen) have just discolored from white to tan. I have seen that phenomenon on other flags from the WW II Era and they were definately manufactured with plain white stars, not gold, but those white stars discolored to the exact same shade of tan as seen on the ebay flag.

Nick A
Columbia Maryland

[csaanv]

How about gold stripes? To me this just confirms Nick's theory but I guess some folks want meaning instead of random accidents.

Article from FOTW site:
48 Star Flags with Gold Stars or Stripes (U.S.)

gold stripe flag.jpg

[AmericaHurrah]

Fabric shortage during wartime seems to have caused the use of a tan/khaki/gold colored fabric by several flag-makers. I presume it was the only color available to them. Sometimes such flags have some white stars and some tan. Sometimes all tan. I see them quite regularly. They are an interesting phenomenon, but not as unusual as one might think.