[mattsaccount]

Just for grins I called them back, because I wanted to ask if they made any flags with tighter tolerances so they could be folded up properly as a triangle. This time, they said I had to contact the distributor that I bought the flag from. Hehe.

So, now that I'm frustrated with their phone support, I emailed them at info@valleyforgeflag.com

==============

Hello,

I recently purchased a 5x9.5' flag from one of your distributors, Flags, US Flags, American Flags, Custom Flags & Banners, Military Flags, Country Flags, Flagpoles, Quinn Flags.

The trouble is that the dimensions of this flag are not within the government specification, as per the DDD-F-416F:

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A tolerance of +/- 5 percent shall be allowed for all dimensions exceeding 4 inches, except that the maximum and minimum measurements of the same dimensions on a single flag may not differ by more than 2 percent of each other and both measurements be within 5 percent tolerance on the minus side or plus side
==================

The specification is available here: ASSIST-QuickSearch - Basic Profile

The specific difficulty is that the bottom dimension is more than 2% different from the top of the flag. I’ve posted a picture of it here:

http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~mjr/temp/DSC_6048.JPG

Measurement suggests that the bottom is 3.5 inches shorter than the top. The result is that this flag is very difficult to fold into the usual triangle shape.


Do you have any recommendations?

I attached a copy of the receipt from when I purchased the flag.

Thanks and regards,
Matt

[Robin Hickman]

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Hi, Matt !


FWIW : I think you should have cited the 2% specification AND played the "irritated customer" in a very cordial but determined way!

BTW : I like your "follow up" e-mail, too !


Of course, I probably would have also asked some extra questions somewhere along the line. Sometimes you just gotta "shame" them into doing the "Right Thing".

"Am I to understand that the Valley Forge Flag Company no longer follows or uses 'Quality Control' standards or procedures during the manufacturing process for officially sanctioned U. S. Government Specification Flags?"

"Does this mean that the Valley Forge Flag Company is NOT proud of, nor 'stand behind', ANY of the United States Flags that they manufacture, ESPECIALLY the 'Government Spec.' U.S. Flags?"


There are some other questions and "points" that could be raised. Such as out-of-spec, misshapen American Flags made by VF showing up at military/veteran funerals, spreading "the Word" about VF's shoddy manufacturing process and refusal to "make things right", or being a member of the largest USA FLAG Forums on the planet (ie. USA-Flag-Site.org), etc.


This is just my way of attempting to encourage you to "stick with it" and get VF Flag to do the right thing and replace the "Out-Of-Spec" G-Spec American Flag that they made !!!


Robin
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[Robin Hickman]

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Nothing really pertinent to add to this conversation.

Just something I found by "Googling" the Valley Forge Flag Company.

It made me laugh. Not "out loud", mind you. Come to think of it, maybe it was more of a "snicker" than a laugh.... Anyway, It's sort of funny.

http://writing-the-wrongs.blogspot.com/2009/05/valley-forge-flag-company.html


Robin
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[mattsaccount]

Well I'll see what they say, if they reply. The first time I'd contacted them via the form on their website. This time was via an email. Hopefully someone checks at least one of these communication channels.

If not, I guess I'll have to call them again I can understand if their perspective is that they only talk to wholesalers, but their website strongly suggests that they are interested in hearing from consumers as well. They really ought to clarify what kind of relationship they want to have with schmoes like me

Ah, almost forgot to add that I read the link--pretty funny stuff. I guess consumers only care if the flag is made in the US, not the rest of the pieces?

[Robin Hickman]

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Hi, Matt !


My guess is that the Valley Forge Flag Company is pretty much like Annin & Company in "who" they think their customers are and how they deal with them.

As near as I can figure out, VF's, Annin's, and other MAJOR Flag manufacturers' (like CF Flag, Eder Flag, etc.) "main" customers are DISTRIBUTORS and MAJOR retail outlets, and possibly the Federal government. The only "evidence" I have that backs that up is that's who they all seem to "market" their products to.

The manufacturers market (or "sell") their products to regional distributors, who sell them to the district distributors, who sell to the retail outlets, who then sell them to US, the consumers. It even works that way (sort of ) on the internet.

The people whose money FUELS the whole engine have the LEAST amount of influence in the "marketing" process. IF the Flag Manufacturers were marketing their products to US, the consumers, we'd have a whole LOT more "leverage". Of course that would complicate things for the manufacturers because then they'd have to hire more people to deal with all of us!

I think they like dealing with as few people as possible, especially if those "few" people were also in the "Flag Biz" and spoke the same language.


Oh, Well . . . . .


IF you really want VF to replace the defective Flag, I'd say keep after them. Keep after them persistantly in a cordially businesslike manner. Try to find someone in the company that knows and understands the importance of the company's REPUTATION as a manufacturer of well-made American Flags !!!

On the other hand, Quinn Flags (the retailer) is supposedly set up to deal with customers. So, hopefully, they take the term "Customer Service" seriously.


As always . . . . . GOOD LUCK !!!


Robin
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[mattsaccount]

They replied to the email I'd written and repeated that I should take it up with Quinn Flags instead. So, that's what I'm going to do. They did, at least, agree that flag was defective.

[Robin Hickman]

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Hi, Matt !


QUOTE : "They did, at least, agree that flag was defective."


IN WRITING ?!?!?!?!?!



Robin
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[Robin Hickman]

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BTW : Good Luck with Quinn Flags !!!


My two guesses are that Quinn Flags will "take care of it", and that you'll have to "take care" of the shipping !!!


And I guess that will take care of that, right ?!?!?


Robin
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[mattsaccount]

Good Morning:

Thank you for your interest and patronage of the Valley Forge Flag Company. We are upset to hear your problems with the flag you recently purchased. We ask that you please contact Quinn Flags regarding this. Due to the fact that we are a wholesaler, we can not have you return the flag to us, Quinn must return the flag.

Thank you,
Valley Forge Flag Customer Service.

The second sentence suggests that they believe the flag is defective

My guess it that you're right, so we'll see what Quinn Flags says. I don't mind paying the shipping, I'd just like one that's not quite so screwed up

[Robin Hickman]

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GOOD LUCK and keep us posted !!!


Have a "peaceful" VETERANS' DAY !!!



Robin .