improper display

[rlhdrider]

I am a decorated Viet Nam vet that is really disappointed with the fact that even our military has chosen to out source the uniforms to a forgein country and has accepted the flag on the uniforms displated backwards. THE STARS ARE TO BE SEEN ON THE UPPER LEFT CORNER, NOT ON THE RIGHT!!!
In watching the opening days of NASCAR, I've noticed Richard Childress Racing drivers Kevin Harvick and Clint Boyer also fly them backwards. If this bothers any other NASCAR fans reading this thread, please email rcrracing.com and state your opinion of this practice. Myself, I fly an American flag, POW-MIA flag, and a US NAVY flag 24/7 with a light sensor to illuminate them at dusk and stays on till dawn! I'm proud of my country and my flags, and get irritated when I see them improperly displayed.
DISPLAY THE FLAG RIGHT OR DON"T DISPLAY IT AT ALL!!!!!

[Peter Ansoff]

Hi, welcome to the forum!

our military has chosen to out source the uniforms to a forgein country and has accepted the flag on the uniforms displated backwards. THE STARS ARE TO BE SEEN ON THE UPPER LEFT CORNER, NOT ON THE RIGHT!!!

This is actually not true. US Army regulations (AR 670-1, Para 28-18c) state that the US flag patch is to be worn on the right sleeve, and that the union is to face forward. Subpar (2) says: "When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the reverse side flag." The flags on Army uniforms are supposed to be "backwards," so that they are flying correctly in relation to the forward motion of the wearer.

Similar logic applies when the flag is painted on the side of an aircraft or vehicle. US Air Force Regulation 34-1201, para 2.10.16, says: "When painted or displayed on an aircraft or vehicle, the union is toward the front and the stripes trail," meaning, again, that the flag painted on the right side is supposed to be "backwards."

In watching the opening days of NASCAR, I've noticed Richard Childress Racing drivers Kevin Harvick and Clint Boyer also fly them backwards.

The US Army Institute of Heraldry web site (http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/) says:

" When worn on the right sleeve, it is considered proper to reverse the design so that the union is at the observer’s right to suggest that the flag is flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward . . . Since the law does not specifically address the positioning of the patch, a decision is left to the discretion of the organization prescribing the wear."

In other words, it's up to NASCAR and the drivers as to which way they display the flag -- they are not displaying it improperly either way. This is also true of non-military organizations such as scout groups that have their own uniform regulations. They generally follow the military's rules, but they don't have to.

Best regards,

Peter Ansoff

[rlhdrider]

good enough.

[Peter Ansoff]

good enough.

Thanks -- hope the information was useful. BTW, there's a minor error in my last post. The Air Force document that I quoted is actually an Instruction (Air Force Instruction, = AFI), not a Regulation.

And thanks for your service. We will never forget.

Best regards,

Peter Ansoff

[Stuff4Toys]

Hey Peter

Every time I visit this site I am more and more impressed with the amount of knowledge about the US Flag and regulations you posses. Where did you come across all of this knowledge?

JOhn

[Stuff4Toys]

Hey Peter

Every time I visit this site I am more and more impressed with the amount of knowledge about the US Flag and regulations you posses. Where did you come across all of this knowledge?

JOhn

After reading another post I had to look up the word "vexillologists" Vexillology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is that a profession, hobby, obsession or all of the above?
JOhn ><>

[Peter Ansoff]

Where did you come across all of this knowledge?

Well, I guess the knowledge divides into two general categories, history and etiquette. Most of the etiquette information is available on the internet, although some (like the military regulations) can take some digging. One thing that I've noticed, however, is that many people are aware of the flag code and the 1959 presidental EO, but have never actually read them. For example, many people will tell you that the only proper way to dispose of a flag is by burning. The flag code does not say that.

The history side is a bit harder. Ever since the US centennial in 1876, people seem to have had an obsession with writing books (and, more recently, web sites) about the American flag. There are hundreds of them out there, and most just repeat the same information over and over again. There's also a tendency to make up stories, which then get repeated in everyone elses' books and sites. The only way to sort out the real stuff is what I call "thread pulling" -- tracing facts and quotations back to their primary sources. When you do that, you often find surprising things -- sometimes the actual quotation, or the context, turns out to have been quite different from what all the books say.

Is that a profession, hobby, obsession or all of the above?

For most of us, vexillology is a hobby (and an obsession!). A few folks like Whitney Smith at the Flag Research Center actually make a living by studying flags, mostly by writing books about them and providing consulting services, but they are the exceptions. Of course, there are also those who are in the business of making and selling flags, and appraising old flags. Roughly speaking, there seem to be three kinds of vexillologists: scholars who are primarily interested in studying flags and their history, collectors, and what I refer to as "evangelists" who are involved in flag-design projects and promoting the use of flags. Of course, those categories are not at all mutually exclusive.

In a sense, vexillology is similar to other hobbies like stamp collecting or model railroading -- it's an engrossing pastime. However, I like to make the point that vexillology is different, because we're dealing with things that people get very excited and passionate about. Soldiers don't risk their lives on the battlefield for stamps, and the US Supreme Court doesn't deal with too many cases involving model trains.

Best,

Peter Ansoff

[Stuff4Toys]

Sorry for hijacking this thread, I often start out with a simple question and then it quickly gets out of hand.

Thank you for getting back to me. The knowledge you have amassed makes me feel quite inferior, I will have to spend more time reading before I start pitching in with what little knowledge I posses.

Of course it's like many hobbies/obsessions, I can talk for hours about boating and fishing, I can talk as long about religious topics, it all depends what your point of interest is and where you spend your time.


Thanks Again
JOhn ><>

[Peter Ansoff]

Sorry for hijacking this thread, I often start out with a simple question and then it quickly gets out of hand.

Hey, no problem -- that's what makes the forum interesting!

The knowledge you have amassed makes me feel quite inferior, I will have to spend more time reading before I start pitching in with what little knowledge I posses.

The dirty secret is that, in the area of flag etiquette, there really isn't *that* much to know. I have a slide in my "American Flag in History and Myth" presentation (which I'll be giving in Pittsburgh in May -- see the announcement elsewhere in the forum), that summarizes all the federal rules and regulations about the flag in one "flowchart." Many people seem to assume that there is a huge corpus of flag-related rules out there, and there really is not. The other thing that's frequently misunderstood (and which I try to clarify in the flowchart), is how the different pieces are related to each other.

Of course it's like many hobbies/obsessions, I can talk for hours about boating and fishing, I can talk as long about religious topics, it all depends what your point of interest is and where you spend your time.

Quite true. To me, that's one of the best things about the internet -- it's a way to be in touch with others who share your odd little interests.

Peter Ansoff

[Libby]

My son is in Karate, on his uniform the facility wants me to put on a left sleeve flag patch on his right arm, so the stars are at the back. My husband was in the Navy and is in emergency services and I was told that the stars are to always face forward. When I told the instructor this, I was told a couple of things, that #1, these are not field uniforms, so that does not apply and #2 I won't repeat. Is that true? I thought that the Department of Defense changed that several years ago and that even dress uniforms were to be displayed with the blue leading. Any help I can get on this would be appreciated. One of their codes is loyalty to country, and I just do not see how it is possible to teach this if you display the flag wrong.