[Flag Keeper]

What a great site the USA Flag Site is! This forum is a wonderful thing. Firstly, since I'm associated with The Flag Keepers, I want to state that I am not fishing for hits to our web site!

One of the forum page headers suggested that I start in the Introductions Forum ... but I couldn't find it! So, I started a new thread.

My name is John Doty and I retired from the United States Marine Corps in 1990. I've been associated with The Flag Keepers since then as a one man volunteer group. Started the website in 2003 and now have about 50 volunteers across the country. Mostly we encourage the removal of tattered American flags from business and government sites. We send out non-confrontational letters to site managers pointing out the tattered condition of their flags. It is a labor of love and very rewarding to see a torn dirty flag replaced with a crisp vibrant Stars and Stripes!

I really think that your site is one of the best and most important on the internet regarding the American flag. We promote USA-Flag-Site from our website.

With all that said... well, I just want to thank the USA-Flag-Site again for helping to make America a better place!

[Jenn739]

I have not quite figured this site out yet, but I was looking for the introduction forum I think. I am doing some research and I was hoping that somebody who looks at this site might be able to provide some information. I am looking for federal law, or different city ordinances that put restrictions on the size of flags and flagpoles that are put up on a social club property, or any property for that matter. Any advice on a good resource to find this information, or anyone who knows this information, would be greatly appreciated.

Jennifer

[Tira]

Hello from Norfolk VA. I too was trying to find the "Introduction Forum" this is where I ended up.

From what I can see, this is a wonderful site. I'm sure too that my husband will not be far behind me is joining.

Thanks!

[redwingmike]

thank you for the info on 1/2 mast for va tech

[dirtfisher@charter.net]

I am new to this forum and was looking to see if a street light not far from my flag pole is adequate illumination for the flag to fly 24/7. My yard is lower than the roadway and the light pole is higher than top of flag pole. The flag pole, flag and yard are well lite. Is this proper illumination to show respect for the flag?

[Peter Ansoff]

Is this proper illumination to show respect for the flag?

If the street light gives enough illumination so that you can see the flag, then it's fine.

This is what the flag code says about this issue:

"It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed 24 hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness."

From my personal observation, the first sentence is no longer true -- it is *not* a universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset. Today, I'd say that it's more common, at least on homes and businesses, to leave the flag up all the time. This is not as big an issue as it was when the code was written. In 1923 there were no such things as synthetic fabrics, and flags wore out relatively quickly. It made sense, therefore, to fly them only when they were visible. Nowdays, nylon and polyester flags last a long time even when they are flown all the time.

In the 18th and 19th centuries, naval and merchant ships flew their flags only when they needed to : when entering or leaving port, meeting another ship at sea, or celebrating a special event. Presumably the reason was the same as the one that formed the basis for the flag code: they didn't want to expose the flag to wear and tear unless it was necessary to do so.

Peter Ansoff

[marytheartist]

Hello, I'm new here and I can see I'm not the only one unable to find the introductions forum! Well I'm Mary and I have not been in any patriotic organizations, such as the Army, Navy or Police Force. Although I am patriotic.

I was wondering about car dealerships actually, it seems every Fourth of July hundreds of flags appear all over them. So why is this allowed if we aren't supposed to use the flag as advertising?

[Peter Ansoff]

Hi, Mary -- welcome!

I was wondering about car dealerships actually, it seems every Fourth of July hundreds of flags appear all over them. So why is this allowed if we aren't supposed to use the flag as advertising?

Good question. The flag code says:

"The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. "

There's some history behind this paragraph. The use of the flag in advertising was what caused the first calls for flag "protection" legislation in the 1890s. Back then, it was common to actually write product names and slogans on the flag itself, and to put flags on ephemeria like advertisements and labels. (As I recall, there was a brand of "Old Glory" beer featuring a flag on the label.) This was what orginally got people stirred up about "flag desecration" -- complaints about the use of the flag in political demonstrations are much more recent.

I guess the modern assumption is that just flying a flag on a pole in front of a car dealership, or on a car's antenna in the lot, is not advertising, per se. If the flag had "Honest Joe's Cars" written on it, that would be something else.

Best,

Peter Ansoff

[marytheartist]

Oh, wow! I didn't know that! Thank you for your thorough answer, I really appreciate it

[Peter Ansoff]

Thank you for your thorough answer, I really appreciate it

No problem! If you'd like to pursue the subject, I highly recommend the book "Saving Old Glory" by Robert J. Goldstein (1995). It's a history of the flag desecration controversy, basically starting with the Civil War and up to the Supreme Court decisions in 1989-1990. It is very interesting to see how the emphasis shifted through history, from advertising to political demonstrations. I don't know if this book is still in print, but it shouldn't be too hard to find a copy on line.

Best,

Peter Ansoff