[Robin Hickman]

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Hello, Again !!!

Here are the pictures of Diane's Flag and my 48-Star Flag "altered" into a 24-Star Banner "Side-By-Side" for Comparinson :

OhioWeavers24Star7StripeFlag-FullLength-Small.jpgCopy of 48StarFlag-Mirrored&Rotated-CroppedStripes&Stars.jpg


SEE ???

So, while I might THINK that the "mystery" is solved, I don't really know for sure!


Robin Hickman
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[NAVA1974]

Robin. Sorry you had to dissect my note. However my first statement about the pulldown was independent of my 36-star flag reference. Pulldowns were sold with 24 stars, 36 stars, 40 stars, all cut from material from the 48-star flag era. They consisted of the top section of white stars on blue, with three, five, or seven red and white stripes hanging below.

My second reference was to that same printed 48-star flag material, but this time the original item WAS a 48 star flag that someone altered to a 36-star and 13 strip flag, as if it was from the ACW period.
I'll try to be less cryptic in the future.

Nick

[Robin Hickman]

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Hi, Nick !
(Hi, Peter!) ( )

I think the biggest problem I had was, initially not separating the two distinct parts of Nick's note. The "secondary" problem was the "why & how" a 48 Star Flag was involved in a 24 Star flag "problem". Then, after all that, it was trying to figure out how they "did it".

That's where my initial curiosity and observations of Diane's Flag/Banner ("Pulldown") came in handy. It seemed to me that her Flag/Banner (Pulldown) had conflicting characteristics, a little bit of both "flag" and "banner".

That's when I started working on the 48 Star Flag and the ensuing "Mirror, Rotate, and Crop" (slicing & dicing) stuff. After finishing it up and seeing the resemblence between what Diane has and what I came up with, I was pretty sure that Nick was right and our little "mystery" was solved!

So, after hearing from both of you, I take it that the "consensus" of opinion is that Diane's (OhioWeaver) Flag/Banner is most likely 1950s-ish 48 Star flag that's been altered/modified into somewhat of a replica of an American Civil War era 24-Star "Pulldown" ???

YES ?

Robin "Waitin' On The Levee, Waitin' On The Levee, Waitin' On The Robert E. Lee" Hickman
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[NAVA1974]

Rather than thinking that Diane's textile was made to resemble a 24-star era pulldown, I believe that the design intentionally varied from the current 48-star flag so as not to violate the Flag Code. Pulldowns were just one form of bunting invented to avoid conflicing with the Flag Code's prohibition against using the flag as drapery or festooning. If it didn't have 48 stars you couldn't be accused of misusing the flag. If it only had 24 stars it was just decorative bunting.
Nick

[Robin Hickman]

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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.........................

OK !

I'l send Diane a link to this thread then.


Robin Hickman
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[ohioweaver]

Since I have been a weaver of cloth and a sewer for over 60 yrs. I can positively tell you that this banner HAS NOT been cut anywhere. On both sides one can see the end of the warp and weft of the cotton woven cloth. There isn't ANY seam or hem and knowing what a selvedge edge should look like, this is a pure selvedge edge. And that selvedge edge is at the top where the PRINTED stars are as well as all along both sides where the stripes are. At the bottom is a turned and stitched hem. The star field is a printed separate piece that is sewn to the top of the stripes.

[NAVA1974]

No, no, no, no, no. That's not what I am trying to say. I must have screwed up my messages.

YOUR textile is not altered. It was mass produced probably by Annin or Dettra in the 1930's, 40's, or 50's as a pulldown, a piece of decorative bunting made as a SUBSTITUTE for an American flag when you want to have patriotic decorations. Because the Flag Code prohibits the use of THE FLAG as a decoration, flagmakers used THE SAME STAR AND STRIPE FABRIC that they made flags with, but used cantons with FEWER THAN 48 Stars so they would not be accused of making "American flags" to be used as decorations, thus violating the Flag Code.

My other comment RELATED to this use of printed 48star flag fabric, was about a full sized 48-star flag that was made in the 1940's or 50's and altered by cutting off the first six to eight inches of the hoist end so that the remaining flag only showed 36 stars. A new heading was crudely added and the flag was used in reenactments in the 1960's. I saw this flag at a Civil War Collector's show in the 1990's being sold as a genuine Civil War period flag. The material was identical in color, feel, stitching, etc. to several printed 48 star flags I own.

Nick