[Peter Ansoff]

Thanks, Robin!

Hcardahs1 wondered how the phrase "...for our cause..." ever came into usage. That's a good question that needs some more research. The earliest example that I've found was in an 1848 book called "Poets and Poetry of America" by Rufus Griswold. There are one or two other errors as well. For example, the line in the third stanza that goes "That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion" is rendered by Griswold as "Mid the havoc of war . . . " which actually changes the meaning a bit. Were the changes just sloppy transcriptions, or was Griswold trying to "improve" on Key's poetry?

It may be significant that the change was in a book of poetry rather than history. Griswold was evidentally a well-known reference; Preble mentions him (and his errors) in his 1880 history of the US flag. One hypothesis is that Griswold's version was copied by writers of school textbooks and such, and got into circulation that way.

Our distinguished collegue NAVA1974 has a superb collection of old reference books dealing with the US flag. Nick, would you have any insight on this?

Best to all,

Peter A.

[Hcardahs1]

Peter Ansoff,

Thank you for setting me straight. I very much do not like to have inaccurate information. When you can cite multiple different documents located at several different institutions, then I agree that a conspiracy seems unlikely in the extreme! I do, however wish that you had mentioned all of these sources in your first posting! I noticed that each time I disagreed with you, you came back with more and better information. I may decide to "disagree" with you in the future just to see what you are holding back! :-)

Anyway, I concede the point to you that the original wording must have been "...when our cause..."

-Mike

[Peter Ansoff]

Mike,

Actually, I'm very glad that we had this exchange. As you know, there are quite a few myths and legends surrounding the American flag; I'm very interested in learning about them and how they have been propagated over the years. I've written a couple of papers on the subject; there's one example available online here:

http://www.nava.org/Flag%20Informati...f_pp77-100.pdf

dealing with the so-called "Grand Union" flag.

Anyway, I really think it would be interesting to track down the origin of the "for our cause" story and how it came to be so widespread. As I mentioned, I found an 1848 poetry collection by Rufus Griswold. I did a bit of surfing (I'd never heard of Griswold before!) and it appears that he was a well-known literary figure who encouraged schools to teach American poetry instead of just emphasizing European and classical works. It sounds like there are a couple of threads that we could pull to learn more about the story.

Best regards,

Peter A.

[Robin Hickman]

.

Then there's the vintage (c. 1906) American flag post card (on eBay) with a snippet of the lyrics printed on it :


http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-Embossed-U-S-Flag-A-S-Cora-U-B-1906-/280517142881?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&ha sh=item41501fe961


Comments: "Conquer we must, when our cause is just, And this be our motto, 'In God is our trust,' and the star spangeled banner in triumph shall wave, O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave".





Doncha jus' LUV dis STUFF ???


Robin "Are There TOO Many Stars For 1906?" Hickman
Eugene, Oregon, USA
.

[Peter Ansoff]

Thanks, Robin!

I have another small tidbit to add to this discussion. Isaac Asimov, the famous science fiction writer, gave a talk at the Rensselaerville Institute in 1990, in which he sang all four verses of the SSB and explained their meaning. I don't have a printed copy of his talk handy, but all of the online versions that I've found say "for our cause" instead of "when our cause."

Given Dr. Asimov's political views, I strongly suspect that his error was unintentional. However, it appears that he may have accidentally helped to spread the myth.

Peter Ansoff

[Robin Hickman]

.
Hi, Peter !


I confess..... I just couldn't resist posting the American Flag post card I saw on eBay! The timing of its appearance was almost "perfect" for this discussion.

Yes, sometimes from small, unintentional "errors" or "omissions" do large, intentional "Conspiracy Theories" sometimes arise !!!


Oh, Well . . . . Waddaya Gonna DO ???


Robin