[howellhartb]

I remember a flag flying above our school everyday. In the classroom little 4 and 5 year olds were covering their hearts with backs erect. They were beginning a journey of learning what the flag symbolizes.

this is the beginning of an article I wrote. As president of the PTA unit at my childs school I was appalled to learn they didn't even have a flag much less fly it. I obtained one from the local American Legion Unit and still it wasn't flown for quit some time. I asked some of the children about the flag and patriotism. Questions like What does it symbolize?, why should we respect it?, what does it mean to you to be a citizen of this country?

It was evident these children at this school knew little about citizenship and less about the principles and ideals thier country was founded on. I believe we need to make sure our children are being taught these ideals.

Think about it. Even terrorist want their beliefs known and taught. They are commited to it.

When we teach our children about the american flag, our country, and our national anthem we teach them respect, pride, honor, commitment, strenght and so many other quality characters. I believe they carry these character into every thread of their lives once learned.

[howellhartb]

in short patriotism defined is loving, standing by, being committed to, and fighting for who or what you stand for and believe in.

I attend a school in Montana and wile the school does fly a flag over the school and have a flag in all the rooms of the school plus the pelage is recited every day, I have seen the same absents of understanding of the symbol the flag is. But also I see no way fore the school to teach that lesson, I personally did not learn what the flag meant in till 3 years ago. I agree that there is a major absents in respect fore the flag but I also do not believe that the school system has the ability or the responsibility to teach that lesson.

[Peter Ansoff]

golden2007: I also do not believe that the school system has the ability or the responsibility to teach that lesson.

The problem, I think, is that teaching about *real* patriotism is difficult and complex, and takes time and commitment. It involves the basic ideas that underlie our concept of citizenship, the history of those ideas and how we have tried (and sometimes failed) to live up to them. Golden2007 is right that it is difficult to do this in a real-world school environment.

Having students recite a rote pledge every day is much easier, but it's hard to see what it really accomplishes. I suspect that most students don't pay any attention to what the words of the pledge mean anyway. And, even if they did, the pledge as it stands is poorly phrased and incomplete. It says nothing, for example, about equality, with is one of our most basic values.

Peter Ansoff

[CultureGeek]

^^ Good post! ^^

Unfortunately, one school recently taught the worst possible less on in civics: that the First Amendment is nothing but pretty words to a rogue supreme court. I was sick with horror to read about Morse V. Frederick, which flew in the face of precedents saying that advocating nonviolent civil disobedience IS protected speech, AND that the school's authority does NOT extend beyond the schoolhouse gate. Whether or not the boy's speech was political* is unimportant; he has a right to say, from his own home, anything that doesn't incite immediate violence, deliberately and harmfully slander someone, or reveal certain types confidential information. The First Amendment protects your right to say dumb things too.

I have no children but if I had a child in that school, I would pull him or her out so fast it'd make your head spin and keep him or her out until Morse was fired.

*which I think it was. Our current drug policy is not unanimously approved. I don't approve of it myself and my only vices are coffee and puzzle games. I don't agree with the drug war because it demonstrably doesn't work and demonstrably increases violent crime. I believe that the existence of laws against "consensual crimes" are related to the Puritan influence in American culture and I think that they are fairly consistently a menace to civil liberties that does more harm than good. I can put it that way, cite references, support my thesis with a lot of data and, as some people have found out, give you a reading list as long as your arm to help explain my point, but 18 year old boys aren't nerdy spinsters. They're still allowed to participate in the public discourse, even if they're not that good at it yet.

Well said Peter. Indeed teachers have a responsibility to ensure that their students understand that, as the American Flag is a living symbol of our great nation, the pledge is a PERSONAL commitment to serve and promote the ideals upon which the United States of America was founded. To make our country even greater.

[CultureGeek]

Yes indeed. Personally, I think the vote is the most important part of that commitment and, this being the time for it, a bit on the responsibility that we will need to fulfill in a few short months. I am talking about the vote and any presidential election, let alone one as historically significant as this one, provides a great opportunity to teach young people what their responsibilities are (or will be) as voters. That doesn't just mean having students vote in mock elections, it means teaching students how to make an informed decision on how they want to vote.

I also really think that this has not been done successfully in quite some time. I mean, I feel like most citizens, young and old, don't really understand what being an informed voter entails, or how impoortant it is. Ordinary citizens aren't just the heart and soul of our democracy--- as voters, we're also a major piece of the brain. Our democracy depends upon an electorate capable of fulfilling that role.

As such, we have a responsibility not only to vote, but also to take at least enough of an interest in the issues of the day to vote somewhat intelligently. America needs an electorate that votes based on platforms and records, not on campaign ads, hairstyles, and Internet rumors. While we don't all have to be law professors, America needs citizens who at least have some idea of the issues at stake in an election, and an understanding of candidates' positions on those issues.

Right now, we have people voting for McCain because Obama has a funny name, and for Obama because McCain was born in Panama (He is still a natural born citizen, as he was born to two U.S. citizens, and the canal zone was even U.S. territory at the time), and since when is being the son of an immigrant, or of a U.S. soldier in any way unAmerican? Our democracy was not designed for an electorate that votes based on dubious campaign ad claims and some truly ridiculous Internet rumors. America needs voters who look at policies and records.

Here are some good place to start.
First, look at what each candidate is actually proposing:
Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Issues
John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

If the candidates' claims about who stands for what conflict (and they do on at least a couple of issues), or you have a question about something in an email that your (left or right) wingnut friend sent you, FactCheck.org nails both sides when they say things that are incorrect or misleading. For instance, McCain's ads contain several flat-out inaccurate statements on Obama's tax policies, and they nail both candidates for things like using quotes out of context.

If you want to really go to the horse's mouth on candidates' legislative records and don't mind wading through some very dense stuff, then THOMAS (Library of Congress) is your guy.

And that is what we need to tell young people. We need to teach young people that being an informed voter is a civic duty. One suggestion for how to do that: FactCheckED.org would probably be a good resource for history, social studies, and civics teachers to use when explaining the vagaries of our election process.

[ihatethiswebsite]

Well, I think students should know a lot about this country's values like liberty and justice and equality, but I don't think the pledge of allegiance is a good thing. Under god doesn't belong in it, and many people believe the pledge is flag worship, so i don't think the pledge should be in public schools. the flag should be in schools, but not the pledge.