[NAVA1974]

Rather than fighting semantics, let's look at actual examples of "items" and you all tell me if these "items" violate the United States Flag Code and why or why not!

Advertising card with James Garfield's portrait in the canton
VTCGarfieldCloth.JPG

Trade Card for fertilizer showing the flag of the United States
BoneFertilizer.JPG

13 star flag with a motto painted across the stripes "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND THEY ARE OURS"
WeHaveMetSmall.jpg

Printed flag with IOOF added across the stripes
IOOF.jpg

Only the latter two items are actual flags, but in my humble opinion, the two top items violate two provisions of the Flag Code because they 1) use the flag in advertising and 2) include a "mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature" on the flag.

Nick

[Robin Hickman]

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I have "trouble" with ALL four of them, ESPECIALLY the last two BECAUSE they are actual Flags !!!

But then, that's just me, just now, this morning.

Robin Hickman
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[NAVA1974]

But if the top two are not actual "flags," as I believe Roger is saying, does the Flag Code actually apply to them?

[Robin Hickman]

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Well, I don't know about Roger. As I've stated before, I believe he is both right & wrong about this stuff. I also believe that there is a chance that he might be seeing this as "black OR white" issue. Meaning, it's 100% "wrong" OR 100% "right", and there's no such thing as an ambiguous "gray" area anywhere in between.

As for me, I do NOT consider the first two examples as "flags", BUT..... I am STILL "troubled" by them.

I'm not sure WHERE to "draw the line" between "acceptable" and "non-acceptable" ("un-acceptable") when it comes to "using" the Flag in advertising. The "line" might even change from day-to-day, or even hour-to-hour, depending on my (Flag) mood or something.

When is a "Flag Replica" a "replica" and NOT a "Flag" ?

Can, and should, a company's or corporation's flag be considered a form of "advertizing" if it's flown from the same pole and halyard as the U.S. Flag (Section 8, sub-section i)?

Some may ask, "where does it all end"? Maybe we should ask, "Where does it all begin"?

When it comes to ANY form of "VISUAL" advertising that includes the American Flag in some way, when is "enough", enough, and when is "too much", too much???

Is in the eye of the beholder?

Maybe..... Maybe not..... I don't know. I really don't know.


Robin Hickman
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[roger.rowe]

I have a problem with the bottom two as they are actual flags. I agree with Robin, I too do not consider the first two examples "flags". Nick correctly defined the position that I do not feel that the flag code applies to the first two, as they are not flags.

I feel that the first two items represent the US Flag, but are not flags. I believe they are a sign of patriotism.

Before I end this post I believe that I must respond to Robin’s earlier post.

First, let me apologize to Nick, as I certainly did mistakenly state Nick’s position as Robin correctly pointed out. The position stated was that of Section 3 quoted by Robin. I was multi-tasking and trying to finish for the day to go home. Right now I am trying to do the same!

Next, while I joined the forum to voice my opinion, I was never under the impression that I knew the answer. I was hoping that I would gain further understanding of the issue through debate; identify where my opinion lacks substance; obtain substance for my opinion. So far, most of the postings have provided excellent support for and against my opinion, but nothing has swayed me from my fundamental opinion. Thank you for taking the time to discuss this, as this has certainly provided evidence of where the pitfalls lie when debating this issue, and where my argument may be confusing to some.

Basically, I know the difference between a flag, postcard, pin, and a napkin, and I ain't that smart! I am just a simple person that calls 'em as i see 'em.