Questio about flying Ukraine flag on Chernobyl anniversary.

[wild-bill]

At the end of next month is the 25th anniversary of the awful Chernobyl disaster. I plan on flying the Ukraine flag half mast on that day. Is it improper to fly it half mast for that day?

[Robin Hickman]

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Hey, Wild-Bill !!!

Fine by me!


I don't see anything wrong with it. It's your house, your flagpole, your flag, and your reason, right?

Someone here or in your town might wonder why you're flying the Ukraine flag instead of the U.S. Flag, but so what? Go ahead and tell them "why". Of course someone might ask you if you've flown the Flag of Japan these past few weeks (if you know what I mean...).


GOOD LUCK !!!


BTW: Don't you wish you had a good old fashioned, American Made, U.S.S.R. Flag to fly, too???



Robin Hickman
Eugene, Oregon, USA

[Robin Hickman]

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Hi, Wild-Bill !


I think that I might have found a phrase in the Flag Code that might have a bearing on your, or anyone else, wanting to fly a flag OTHER than than the United States Flag alone on their flagpole. I am not sure if I'm reading the phrase in the Flag Code correctly, or if I'm interpreting it correctly.

I've highlighted in BOLD (below) the phrase I'm wondering about.

Section 7 : Position And Manner Of Display; sub-section (c) :

"No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations."


I'm not sure if I'm reading or interpreting it correctly, BUT it seems to be saying something along the lines (I'm paraphrasing) that "No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag... in place of the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof...".


See what I mean ???


I think we NEED some expert opinions here..... HELP !!!



Robin Hickman
Eugene, Oregon, USA
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[wild-bill]

I have a 2X3 nylon USSR flag. I want the Russian SSR and Ukrainian SSR flag. The only ones I've found are on Ebay. They're larger than what I want and go for more than I'm willing to pay for.

I don't understand the flag code you mentioned in the above post. How can flying another flag be "in place of" the US flag. Is like it's implying that the only PROPER flag to fly is the US flag. As far as I'm concerned, if the US flag is not involved, how can the flag code apply? Does this mean that if someone chooses to fly another flag, are they violating the code every day they do it?

[Peter Ansoff]

Except for the first sentence, this was a late addition to the flag code, added in the 1950s. Note how the phrasing changes -- the rest of the code is written in an advisory voice, while this part is in "legalese." The intent of the change was to prevent people from flying the United Nations flag "in place of" the US flag. As wild-bill points out, it really makes no sense; either you are flying the US flag or your aren't. The word "equal" in the second sentence is also odd; it actually seems to contradict other parts of the flag code.

In short, this is a piece of Cold War paranoia that should never have been added to the flag code. It should definitely be a candidate for deletion if the code is ever revised.

Peter Ansoff

[Robin Hickman]

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Thanx, Wild-Bill !

Thanx, Peter !


Knowing NOW that the passage was a "Cold War" addition, it now makes some sense to me. Initially I thought it was meant for only a single flagpole, but I can see where it "works" for multiple poles as well.

I had wondered about the lack of the Code's usual "should" wording (after the 1st sentence), but thought maybe since it was a separate issue, I should wait and mention it at another time.

The term "international flag" threw me for a few minutes because it came right after "other national". My first quick assumption was that an "other national" flag would be the same as "international", but then, no, that didn't seem quite right. THEN, I remembered that there were/are international treaty organizations, groups, and entities similar to the U.N. such as NATO, OAS, SEATO (obs.), etc.

The "equal" bit was a little disconcerting until I was able to satisfy myself that it is "probably" used in place of the earlier phrase, "on the same level". But the use and meaning of the word "equal" in the second sentence seems to be in direct opposition to the use of the phrase, "on the same level" as it is used and meant in the first sentence.

Sigh.....


So, is it OK to fly the flag of Ukraine all by itself, alone, on a flagpole in the place of the Flag of the United States of America?



Robin
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[NAVA1974]

. So, is it OK to fly the flag of Ukraine all by itself, alone, on a flagpole in the place of the Flag of the United States of America? .

If you read every "should" in the US Flag Code as a "shall" or "must" condition, then the answer is No, you may not fly the flag of another country instead of the US flag.

4USC6d (Title 4 United States Code, Section 6, part "d") says of the United States flag "The flag should be displayed on all days..."

Now, following my "must" vs "should" logic, if the flag "must" be displayed every day, and you only have one pole, and you may only display one national flag per pole, then it's gotta be the US flag. No other flag is to be substituted.

Of course, the Flag Code does not say "shall" or "must." It says "should." In government-ese, "should" means that is what you are to do unless you have a good reason. I have no clue as to who is the arbitrator of whether or not honoring the victims of Chernbyl by flying the flag of the Ukraine instead of the US flag is a good reason. I suppose it is in the eye of the beholder.

There is no "flag police" to enforce the US Flag Code. As we have seen with various Supreme Court decisions, the worst disrespect that anyone cares to show towards the US flag is considered "protected speech." Therefore, flying the flag of the Ukraine would also be considered "protected speech."

If you didn't guess already, I work for "The Government" and am married to a lawyer.

We can analyze words to death.

Nick A
Columbia Maryland

[Robin Hickman]

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QUOTE (Nick A.): "We can analyze words to death."


Well, my initial response to Wild-Bill's question was that it was, "Fine by me" and "I don't see anything wrong with it. It's your house, your flagpole, your flag, and your reason, right?".

I still think and feel that way.

It's just that I was a little taken aback by the "in place of" stuff. Which is why that even though I'm fine with Wild-Bill flying the Flag of the Ukraine Republic at half-staff on his flagpole in remembrance of the victims of the Chernobyl disaster, after I ran across 4USC7c (Title 4 United States Code, Section 7, sub-section c), I felt compelled to ask.


Know what I mean ???


I wonder if my neighbors would wonder "why" if I were to fly my State of Pennsylvania at half-staff this coming Monday, March 28th, 2011 ???



Robin
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[Bergschlawiner]

Just do the sinsible thing and if you fly any foreign flag at your residence also fly the US Flag in its correct position.

[wild-bill]

Just do the sinsible thing and if you fly any foreign flag at your residence also fly the US Flag in its correct position.

Well I only have 1 pole in the front yard, so I just fly the flag of choice. I fly the Texas flag daily unless I want to fly another state or nation's flag. That reminds me, Confederate Memorial Day is also April 26 in Texas. So I guess one will fly in the front and one on the little 11' pole in the back yard. I hate it when 2 flag holidays "collide".