4 Flag Display

Discussion in 'US Flag Display' started by bamaborne@gmail.com, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. bamaborne@gmail.com

    bamaborne@gmail.com New Member

    I need to know the proper order for these four flags when displayed on my porch on separate displays.

    American Flag
    US Navy Flag
    US Marine Corps Flag
    Vietnam Veteran Flag.
     
  2. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hello, BamaBorne! Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums! :D


    QUOTE : "I need to know the proper order for these four flags when displayed on my porch on separate displays.

    American Flag
    US Navy Flag
    US Marine Corps Flag
    Vietnam Veteran Flag.


    If I understand your question correctly, you have FOUR (4) separate poles to fly your flags from. IF that is correct, then your four flags would hang in the following listed order from left-to-right, as OBSERVED from the sidewalk & street :

    1. American (U.S.A.) Flag (Far Left)
    2. U.S. Marine Corps Flag (Mid Left)
    3. U.S. Navy Flag (Mid Right)
    4. Vietnam Veterans Flag (Far Right)

    VISUAL EXAMPLE :

    _Y O U R_____P O R C H_
    __1 ___2___3___4__

    __S__T__R__E__E__T__


    The U.S. Flag gets the position of highest "honor" (#1), which is furthest to its own right (observer's left). ALL other flags will line up to its own left (observer's right). The order of precedence is from the flags own right to the left (observers left-to-right) in descending order.

    The service flags order of precedence is determined by the "recognized" order of the dates of their "official" formation (creation). In your particular case, the Marine Corps flag position (#2) takes precedence over the Navy flag (#3), so it will be in the 2nd position with the Navy flag in the 3rd.

    The Vietnam Veterans flag will be in the 4th position.


    I hope that answers your question.


    FWIW : This past Veterans' Day (11/11/2010), I had planned to post the following eight (8) flags out in front of my house during the day (each on their own 8' flagpole). Unfortunately at that time I did not have a U.S. Air Force Flag and I was a few poles short, so I ended up with a two-layer presentation. BUT... IF I'd had all the flags & poles necessary, THEN... they would have been (from the "Observers View" from left-to-right) :

    1. American (U.S.A.) FLAG
    2. Oregon State Flag
    3. U.S. Army Flag
    4. U.S. Marine Corps Flag
    5. U.S. Navy Flag
    6. U.S. Air Force Flag
    7. U.S. Coast Guard Flag
    8. POW*MIA Flag


    Thank you for bringing your Flag-related question to our Forums! :D


    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
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  3. J.A.F.E.

    J.A.F.E. New Member

    So a state flag takes precedence over a service flag?
     
  4. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Sir. That is correct.



    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
    .
     
  5. drsmith50

    drsmith50 New Member

    Why would the Coast Guard flag be after the Air Force flag?
     
  6. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .
    Hello, DrSmith50 !!! :D

    Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums !!! :D


    QUOTE : "Why would the Coast Guard flag be after the Air Force flag?"


    As I understand it, the order of precedence for the flags of the branches of our armed forces is set by the dates of their formation, organization, or re-organization.

    I know that the Air Force used to be part of the U.S. Army (Army Air Corps) and became its own separate "branch" on September 18, 1947.

    I know that the Coast Guard was originally known as (or "evolved" from) the "Revenue Cutter Service", which was formed back on August 4th, 1790, as part of the Department of the Treasury. The Coast Guard (by that name) was officially established on January 28th, 1915. While both of those dates "pre-date" the creation of the USAF (and would give the USCG flag precedence over the USAF flag), I think the date used for the USCG was in 1967 when it was moved from the Department of the Treasury to the Department of Transportation.

    BUT..... I don't know that for absolutely, positively for sure !!! :eek:

    The USA-Flag-Site Forums Administrator, Peter Ansoff, wrote an entry (maybe two...) somewhere in these Forums on the subject of the precedence of the Flags of the branches of the United States Armed Forces. He gave the dates and cited the authorizations for them for each of the Armed Services. I wanted to include a link to that entry so your would be able to read it for yourself. I've been searching all over for it but, unfortunately, I haven't been able to find it. Unfortunately, I've run out of time. I've tried to answer the best I could from "memory".


    Maybe you could star a new thread by asking the same question and Mr. Ansoff can give you a much more "authoritative" reply.


    Anyway, Thank You for bringing your Flag-related question to our Forums !


    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
    .
     
  7. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .
    Hello, again, DrSmith50 !


    Some quick follow-ups.

    1. During times of "declared" war, the Coast Guard operates as part of the Navy. During those times, the Coast Guard's flag will "switch" places with the Air Force flag so that it immediately follows that of the Navy, but precedes the flag of the Air Force (ie. Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force).

    2. I was able to find one of Peter Ansoff's entries regarding the "order of precedence" for the armed services' flags.

    http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/elks-club-correct-way-hang-all-9464.html

    In this particular entry, Peter referred to "DODD 1005.8" as the authority for the precedence of the flags of the armed services: Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard.

    So far I've been unable to find the entry that he made where he spelled out by their "official" respective dates the reasons for the order of their precedences.

    I know it's on this site and in these Forums somewhere because I've read ir a couple of times! It's just that I haven't yet found it and I don't have the time right now to keep looking!


    Sorry about that!


    HOWEVER.....


    What I DID find was a PDF copy of "AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 34-1201 4 OCTOBER 2006 Services PROTOCOL". Which implements DoDD 1005.6 (NOT the same as DoDD 1005.8).


    On page 16 of the PDF document in the "2.11. Order of Precedence of Flags", it gives the order of precedence of the flags of the services, but NOT the reasons for their order.


    2.11. Order of Precedence of Flags. The following is the order of precedence of flags:

    2.11.1. The flag of the United States.

    2.11.2. Foreign national flags. Normally, these are displayed in alphabetical order using the English alphabet. When in NATO countries, NATO member country flags are displayed in French alphabetical order.

    2.11.3. Flag of the President of the United States of America.

    2.11.4. State and territorial flags. State flags should be displayed in order of admittance of the state to the Union. Territorial flags, when displayed, are displayed after the state flags in the order they were recognized by the United States.

    2.11.5. Military organizational flags of the Services in order of precedence:

    2.11.5.1. Cadets, United States Military Academy.

    2.11.5.2. Midshipmen, United Stated Naval Academy.

    2.11.5.3. Cadets, United States Air Force Academy.

    2.11.5.4. Cadets, United States Coast Guard Academy.

    2.11.5.5. Midshipmen, United States Merchant Marine Academy.

    2.11.5.6. United States Army.

    2.11.5.7. United States Marine Corps.

    2.11.5.8. United States Navy.

    2.11.5.9. United States Air Force.

    2.11.5.10. United States Coast Guard.

    2.11.5.11. Army National Guard of the United States.

    2.11.5.12. Army Reserve.

    2.11.5.13. Marine Corps Reserve.

    2.11.5.14. Naval Reserve.

    2.11.5.15. Air National Guard of the United States.

    2.11.5.16. Air Force Reserve Command.

    2.11.5.17. Coast Guard Reserve.

    2.11.5.18. Other training organizations of the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard, in that order, respectively.

    2.11.5.19. Note: In times of war, when the Coast Guard operates as part of the Navy, the cadets, Coast Guard Academy, the Coast Guard, and the Coast Guard Reserve take precedence after the midshipmen of the Naval Academy, the Navy, and the Navy Reserve, respectively.



    Hope that helps !!! :D



    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
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  8. drsmith50

    drsmith50 New Member

    Robin - Thank you so very much for this information. This is very timely as I plan to fly our armed forces flags at our church cementary on Memorial Day. I did find the Order of Precedence of Flags on the internet. I as a little amazed that the Marine flag comes before the Navy flag as my research shows that the US Navy was founded on Oct 13, 1775 and the Marine Corp was founded on Nov 10 1775.
     
  9. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

    Robin said, "So far I've been unable to find the entry that he made where he spelled out by their "official" respective dates the reasons for the order of their precedences."

    Count the vertical stripes on the USCG flag and you will get a pretty good idea of when their parent service (The United States Revenue Service) began.

    Nick A
    Columbia MD
     
  10. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, DrSmith50 ! :D


    The Continental Navy was dis-banded after the revolution. For all intents and purposes while there was no Navy, the "Revenue Cutter Service" WAS the defacto Navy! The Marines were NOT dis-banded, so that's why they take "precedence" ahead of the Navy.


    QUOTE : "This is very timely as I plan to fly our armed forces flags at our church cementary on Memorial Day."

    OUTSTANDING !!! :D

    Have you thought about flying the flags of our Armed Forces on "Armed Forces Day", which is the third Saturday in May (May 21st, 2011) ???

    Assuming that photos will be taken of the Armed Forces flags display, would you please post a few of them here for our members and visitors to view ???



    Thank You !!! :D



    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
    .
     
  11. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    The Continental Navy was dis-banded after the revolution. For all intents and purposes while there was no Navy, the "Revenue Cutter Service" WAS the defacto Navy!

    Actually, it was a close thing. The Revenue Cutter Service was established in April 1790. The US Navy as we know it was established in April 1798. However, Congress had already authorized construction of six warships back in 1794 -- they were under Army administration until 1798. The RCS preceded the Navy by either 4 or 8 years, depending on how you count it.

    The Marines were NOT dis-banded, so that's why they take "precedence" ahead of the Navy.

    I think that this is largely a piece of Marine Corps PR. For all practical purposes, the Marine Corps, like the Navy, was disbanded at the end of the Revolution. The last Marine Officer, Lt. Thomas Elwood, was discharged in September 1783. The "Agent of the Marine," which was the final administrative structure for both the Continental Navy and the Continental Marines, was abolished after Robert Morris retired in 1784. After that, as Charles Smith wrote in his authoritative "Marines in the Revolution", " . . . there was no organized corps, and little remained of the Continental Marines but a few gallant memories." The USMC that we know today was born on 11 July 1798, when President Adams signed "An Act for Establishing and Organizing a Marine Corps."

    Peter Ansoff
     
  12. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .
    Hi, Peter ! :D



    OK..... So, if the U.S. Navy (as we know it) was established in April, 1798, and the USMC (as we know it) was not established until July 11th, 1798 (about three months AFTER the Navy), the WHY does the USMC flag take precedence over the USN flag?


    While we're on the subject, to the best of my memory, you wrote an entry somewhere in these Forums regarding the whole Armed Forces Flags "precedence" evolution, including their recognized dates, but I can't seem to be able to find it!


    HELP !!! :eek:


    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
    .
     
  13. Kyle Koedyker

    Kyle Koedyker New Member

    The Marine Corps actually had its first commisioned officer before the Navy. That is another reason why the Marine Corps would take precedence.
     

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