America of States United Flag

Discussion in 'US Flag Specs and Design' started by Arthur Benjamins, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. Arthur Benjamins

    Arthur Benjamins New Member

    Good morning all, I've just joined this forum, being very interested in the history of the USA - where I now reside (Phoenix) as a professional artist.
    I was born in Holland and lived in the UK for 40 years.
    My forte in my art is the propagation of symbolism, iconography - pioneering "Abstract Iconography" in various shapes and forms. ONE of those icons is the American flag, which I found important enough to portray in my own manner and without causing or implying disrespect.
    I showed my initial drafts to various veterans, including WW2, Vietnam, Korean, Gulf wars and other conflicts. I was happy to receive no negative comments - in fact they were all very positive and every veteran posed their views on how they saw my new image.
    In order not to duplicate any previous image like mine - I fully searched and trawled the internet on "American Flag Art", on which literally thousands of artists' images existed over the years. To my delight, I did not find one design that resembled my design. None came even close!

    My flag is correctly proportioned and named "America of States United" and measures 24" x 44" x 2". It is, in fact SO realistic, that many viewers don't immediately see the subtlety of the image. They KNOW something is different, but it usually takes a few seconds before it registers.
    "America of States United" came too late for the new publication, "Stars & Stripes - The American flag in contemporary art" - by author Ashley Rooney. I WAS assured that a second book on this subject would include my image.

    However, I have widely placed my image on the internet, indelibly and permanently linking it to my name as the artist AND originator.

    I hope everyone will enjoy it. Thanks for reading.

    Arthur Benjamins


    View attachment 1944


    View attachment 1944
     
    CapeFearPirate likes this.
  2. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .....
    Welcome to the USA-FLAG-SITE Forum, Arthur Benjamins!

    WOW! I really LIKE your "America of States United" Flag Image! In fact, I think that it should have its OWN thread here rather than being buried in this one!

    I am NOT an "Art Critic" (and I don't play one on TV), but I do have three very minor "nits" to pick with your "America of States United" image. These are only my personal opinions and they are, what I consider to be, somewhat minor in nature.

    #1 The "standard" for the colors of the U.S. Flag have been defined (for cloth) as "White", "Old Glory Red", and "Old Glory Blue". I'm not sure how they would be listed as "shades" or "tints" for printing inks or digital images. While it looks to me (and my untrained eyes) as though the reds and the whites in your image are fairly close to those used to make the U.S. Flag, your blue is definitely too light of a shade for the blue of the U.S. Flag that, I believe, you are paying homage to.

    #2 You list the dimensions of your "America of States United" image as being 24" x 44" x 2", and you assert that your image is "correctly proportioned". The "official" proportions of the U.S. Flag are listed to be at a 1:1.9 ratio. So, I'd think that a more correct proportional ratio would be closer to 24" x 45.6" (24 x 1.9). Additionally, the canton containing the Stripes as they appear in your image should probably be a little wider and a little deeper to more adequately "mirror" the official proportions of the U.S. Flag.

    #3 The "Canton" (The Blue rectangle containing the white stars, AKA "The Union") in the Flag's own upper right-hand quadrant (upper left-hand quadrant as seen by the viewer) is considered the most important (of highest honor) of the U.S. Flag. While its 13 Stripes represent and honor the 13 Original Colonies, and thus our first 13 States, the Stars in the Canton of the U.S. Flag (more importantly) represent and honor ALL of the States in our Union. Your elegant reversal of those two elements in your "America of States United" image might be suggesting a reversal in their meanings and importance, perhaps?

    My artistically untrained and amateurish minor "nit-picking" aside, your "America of States United" is a very well-executed patriotic image that I really like! VERY Artistic & VERY Patriotic!

    KUDOS !!!

    Thank You for Sharing "America of States United"!

    Robin Hickman
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man"
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
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  3. Arthur Benjamins

    Arthur Benjamins New Member

    Hi Robin,

    Many thanks for your reply, it is much appreciated. Arithmetic being my weakest point, I totally concede to your facts.
    I am very pleased that you have no objections to my image and it was my foremost commitment that I illustrated my reversal, followed closely by the exact proportions - and certainly the correct colors. Indeed, the blue is a bit lighter on my image.
    My copy of "Book of Flags" by Eric Inglefield is a small publication from which I, too got the 1:1.9 ratio, but apart from that, it offered little more.
    The placing of the stars DID become a major head ache, considering the strange area they suddenly found themselves in. I also seem to remember that the stars strictly governed the area left for the horizontal stripes, hence the slight disproportion that you mentioned.

    Would you perhaps have all the proportions for me, as I would like to portray a fully - and correctly proportioned and colored flag in the very near future?

    Thank you in advance,

    Arthur Benjamins
     
  4. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .....
    Hello, again, Arthur!

    There are any number of places on the internet to find the "correct" dimensions and proportions for the "official" (not "personal") United States Flags, which are made for, and used by the U.S. Federal Government. Since yours is a "personal" rendition of the U.S. Flag, you aren't necessarily bound by the "official" dimensions & proportions unless you want to be. Or, perhaps, whatever sizes and proportions will aesthetically "fit" within your unique design.

    The two main dimensional "problems" that I "nit-picked" about had to do with the 1:1.9 ratio of the whole Flag itself, and the size of its canton (Union) relative to the Flag: 7/13 (0.5385) of the "hoist" (height) and 0.76 of the "fly" (length). I think one of the main "problems" that will need to be addressed will be the size of the stars and the width of the stripes in the Canton (Union). You already have a nicely arrayed (and neatly arranged) set of 50 Stars. The only thing "wrong" with them might be that there is a little too much "blue" to the area at left and right sides of the Stars. I can see where changing the sizes of the Stars will have an immediate, and noticeable, effect on their placement! Whew!

    Here are three (3) webpages that show the "proper" dimensions and proportions of the "official" (NOT personal) U.S. Flag. you'll also find that they have to "proper" sizes/ratios of the various components of the Flag listed. Because your unique image has the Stars & Stripes "reversed", I don't know if the dimensions given for them would necessarily apply - in fact, they don't. If all else fails, "Google": American Flag Proportions, like I did.


    Wikipedia.org :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States

    USHistory.org :
    http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq3.html

    Montney Family Flag Page (larger picture) :

    http://www.montney.com/flag/proportions.htm

    Good Luck!

    Robin Hickman
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man"
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
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  5. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    I've moved this discussion to its own thread, per Robin's excellent suggestion. BTW, I believe that the Pantone equivalents for the red and the blue in the US flag are 193 and 218, respectively. The red is actually quite dark compared with, for example, the ones in the British and Canadian flags. The US version looks almost purple under some lighting conditions.

    From an artistic standpoint, I suppose one could argue that this alternative is a better design than the real one, because the stars don't have to be crammed into the canton. The late Whitney Smith mentioned somewhere that he thought we should go back to the original 13-star flag for that reason.

    There is also an interesting historical angle to this design, which I need to turn into a paper one of these days. It has to do with the development of Army regimental colors during the Revolutionary War. When hostilities began in 1775, many regiments continued to use the British pattern, with the union crosses in the canton. However, after the Continental Colors was created in December 1775, stripes became the generally-recognized symbol of the American union, and replaced the British crosses in unit colors. (There are several surviving examples of colors with striped cantons.) Then, when the stars-and-stripes was adopted as the national flag in 1777, we suddenly had *two* symbols of the American union -- the stripes and the stars -- and it wasn't clear which should be on the regimental colors. At least one, the so-called "Brandywine Flag," had *both* in the canton. Eventually, the stars won out, but who knows -- it could have gone the other way!
     
  6. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .....
    Hi, Peter!

    The following is OFF-TOPIC !!!

    Could you give me some Guidance & Assistance with the "problem" I laid out over in the following thread"???

    http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/threads/pow-mia-flag-2-poles-order-of-precedence-problem.11633/#post-37132

    I'm trying to come up with a way that follows the greatest number of Flag "protocols", while being "simple" enough for both the City of Springfield, Oregon and the Willamalane Parks & Recreation Department to easily follow, and perhaps use as the basis of their own Flag Protocol, if they don't already have one. (Wow! THAT was a long, drawn-out, compound sentence!!!)

    Thank You!

    Robin
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  7. Arthur Benjamins

    Arthur Benjamins New Member

    Wow guys, many thanks for your follow-ups.
    Yes, you mentioned the available space left to me - indeed, several spacings of the stars have been affected by the irregular shape of the blue area. At this stage, I feel that I shall begin with the correct dimensions of the rectangle, and I think I'll put everything on AutoCad to redistribute the facts and see what I'll come up with.
    The problem is, that I've seen SO many variations of the modern version, that I've become confused as what's fact and what's fantasy. However, with my 24" painting height, if Robin's calculations make it that it should be 45.6", than so be it. It remains imperative that certain restraints should always be adhered to, and the correct overall height and length is a jolly good start!

    Thanks and blue skies,

    Arthur
     
  8. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

  9. Arthur Benjamins

    Arthur Benjamins New Member

    NAVA 1974, thank you very much for enlightening me. I'm glad I wasn't around in 1812, as I would never have had the opportunity to show the world my concept and design. If I'd known about this forum before I created my flag, I would possibly have been shown this 204-year old, but short-lived flag, and my version may never have seen the light of day.
    Fortuitously, I scrolled the WWW for "American Flag Art", where absolutely nothing was shown vaguely resembling my design. Even my books on the "Stars & Stripes" in all its guises and history, never showed anything - or even hinted - at the Easton flag. I would say that my research was pretty much meticulous

    I really need more advice how to maximize SEO in order for my version to be 'grabbed' and included into the previous heading. At the moment, the many hundreds of images have closed ranks and mine remains on the sidelines, ready to take its rightful place among the others as a truly original work of art. I guess Jasper Johns had no inking what tumultuous results his work would have had on 'Flag Art'
    With the publicity my concept has received over the past two years via half a dozen media sites, online galleries, especially "Fine Art America", "Saatchi", "Deviant Art" etc, etc, I AM expecting some form of future duplication of course, however, I remain sure that my particular concept remains fully accredited to me.

    Thanks and blue skies,

    Arthur
     

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