Burial Flag to Who?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Flag Discussion' started by Frenchfamily2@fuse.net, May 13, 2008.

  1. I was hoping someone could help answer a question. My father is a WWII veteran. We are preparing for his funeral and had a question concerning the memorial flag. I thought that the flag was given first to a surviving spouse and if none to the oldest son of a veteran who had also served in the military otherwise the oldest son. The only information I can fine refers to “next of kin“ receiving the flag upon burial. I know any surviving kin may accept the flag but was wondering what is the proper etiquette. Thank you
     
  2. welcome to USA flag site

    The way it is done is usually it is given to the next of kin - who would be the spouse... if no spouse - then whomever is next of kin..
    That would be the oldest child - male or female who would recieve the flag on the day - this is obviously the fairest way of doing it if there is more than one person wanting to collect the flag... you can draw names out of a hat or other ways of deciding fairly who gets to pick up the flag on the day also

    then of course after athat time then it can be decided who gets to keep the flag or whether it is passed around every month to the next person to look after
     
  3. xpduint1

    xpduint1 New Member

    I'm new to this site and have searched for the following answer, are the US flags given to the next of kin made in the USA?" Sure would like to know. Also is the flag(s) displayed in our nations capitol made in the USA?
     
  4. yes and yes xpduint'

    welcome to 'Usa flag site

    they are all made in the USA
     
  5. Stuff4Toys

    Stuff4Toys Member

    Sorry to hear of your loss, our hearts and prayers are with you. My family just went through the same thing. Mom passed away several years ago, so when Dad (also a WWII Vet) died my oldest brother received the flag and to our delight, he presented the flag to the Youngest Great Grandson in the family, my Grandson. The flag is displayed in my Daughters home in a beautiful hand made case. We have since found all of Dad's military badges, metals and awards and will include them in the display case.

    JOhn ><>
     
  6. mtiernan

    mtiernan New Member

    Would the flag still go to the oldest son if he was not honorably discharged?
     
  7. if the deceased is dishonorably discharged - they are not entitled to a military funeral or a burial flag....
    if a burial flag is wanted - the family would need to purchase it themselves
     
  8. mtiernan

    mtiernan New Member

    Thanks for the initial reply, but maybe my question was not clear. My father in law was honorably discharged in 1946 after fighting in WWII. He died last year and the burial flag was given to my wife the 2nd oldest in the family. The oldest and the rest of the fasmily is questioning why she was given the flag. The oldest son received a general/dishonorable discharge from the military. Because of that the flag went to my wife. Does that justify the flag not going to the oldest son.
     
  9. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

    I do not see how the designation of "next of kin" changes when someone is dishonorably discharged.
     
  10. Varinia

    Varinia New Member

    I am not sure where to post this but I need a book that I have seen several times in the past about Flag codes and etiquette and such.
    It is NOT the booklet that the legion currently has.

    I found the information online for WHO GETS THE FLAG AT A VETERANS FUNERAL and in what order.
    But due to some miscommunications within the family I want to have a
    printed official book, brochure, document, SOMETHING from the veterans and or military to make everyone understand that my Grandma can keep my Grandpa's flag as long as she wants it.

    Anyway without going into to much detail. I need this....
    Can anyone here at least point me in the right direction?

    "ORDER OF SUCCESSION FOR RECEIVING THE BURIAL FLAG


    For a Servicemember who died while serving on active duty, the line of succession is ...

    • Spouse
      Sons or daughters in the order of age, oldest first
      Oldest parent, unless legal custody was granted to another person
      Blood or adoptive relative granted legal custody
      Brothers or sisters in the order of age, oldest first
      Oldest grandparent
      Other relative in accordance with laws of deceased's domicile"



     
  11. Cmc990811

    Cmc990811 New Member

    View attachment 1934 View attachment 1933 Please forgive me if posted in the wrong place.

    My mom was given her Father's and Brother's military flag a long time ago by her mom. My mom past 6 1/2 years ago and I have the flags since then proudly displayed on my mantle with a large photo of my mom and her ashes. Today one of her brothers contacted me demanding the flags stating he is more entitled to them than I am. The next sibling in my moms family is a different brother but my mom left the flags to me knowing I would take care of them and respect them. My Poppy's (my moms dad) was presented the day of his funeral he served in the Navy during Korea. My Uncle's (my moms brother) flag was for his service in Vietnam but he died on leave in a car crash. I am a navy brat and come from a long line of military men all the way back to revolutionary War. Both flags are folded and in cased in the triangle frame box. I wipe down the boxes daily and check the seals. I also have my dad's retirement flag from the Navy. All 3 lined up on my mantle with my mom's ashes and her picture hung proudly above.

    So my question is who is the rightful person to have the flags?
     
  12. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .....
    Hello, CMC990811!

    Welcome to the USA-FLAG-SITE Forum!

    I'm not sure that I want to get myself into the middle of a Family argument. It would appear to me that this is more of a "legal" problem than a "Flag" problem, but then I am NOT a lawyer... So... Here goes!

    Remember: I am NOT a lawyer (and I don't play one on TV!)!

    The "Order Of Succession For Receiving A Burial Flag" (or the then-current Family members' wishes) might have come into play back at the time of your Grandfather's and Uncle's burials. BUT... Since BOTH Flags appear to have been presented to the "Primary Next Of Kin" (PNOK) at the time of the service members/veterans funeral ceremony (a "long time ago"), then any official "Order Of Succession" for receiving their Interment Flags has already been determined years ago and is now a moot point. In other words, that was then and this is now.

    The question of "who gets the Flag(s)" might be answered in your Mother's last will & testament, since she had received them from her Mother and had possession of them at the time of her death, 6½ years ago. If she bequeathed the Flags to a specific person then that's who got the Flags, and they would have had possession of them. If your Mother bequeathed the Flags to a person who did not get them immediately after her death then, I would assume, perhaps they should get them now. If they "passed" on receiving the Flags back then and gave them to someone else, then that person should have the Flags. If your Mother did NOT have a will, then I would assume that the disbursement of her possessions was decided at that time of her death by her Family members or, perhaps, through the Probate process.

    I can NOT tell you who is the "rightful owner" of the two Flags (your Grandfather's and your Uncle's). That is up to you and your Family members or, hopefully not, the court system. Whether or not your Family can come up with a compromise "solution" that everybody can live with, is going to be up to all of you.

    You keep the Flags?
    Your Uncle gets the Flags?
    You keep one Flag and your Uncle gets the other Flag?
    Your Uncle gets both Flags?
    Your Uncle gets both Flags but agrees (in writing) to give/bequeath them to you upon his death or incapacity?

    I don't know.

    I wish you and your Family all the luck in the World. and I truly hope you all can find a peaceable solution to your Flag dilemma.

    Robin Hickman
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man"
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    .....
     
    Cmc990811 likes this.
  13. Cmc990811

    Cmc990811 New Member

    My dad, my sisters and I could not fine a will nor was one on file with the county she lived in, so we hired a lawyer to do everything the right way. Before my mom past she asked us girls what we wanted to have being the youngest I asked my sisters if they wanted them and they said no so I told my mom I would like the flags, along with some other items. My mom labelled everything of who was to get what. I take pride in my military history and those are the only items I have from my Uncle and my Poppy. I take care them, they are not exposed to sunlight, they are in military approved cases and folded properly and they sit with a small urn of my mom's ashes.

    I already know wh0 will have the flags after I pass if none of kids want them. They will go to my cousin so they are kept in the family. It just makes me angry that after 6 1/2 years after my mom passing this Uncle comes out of the woodwork demanding I give him the flags and that he has more rights to them that I do. I did contact the lawyer who did the probate and they said NY state law states if there is no will on record than 1/2 goes to surviving spouse and the other 1/2 is divided up between children of the deceased. I asked them about the flags and explained what was going on now and they said when they took inventory the flags were marked for me therefore the flags are legally mine and that they would send a letter to my mom's brother stating the fact and that the other items he is demanding were not listed on the inventory therefore they never existed and there was nothing left for any of my mom siblings and it was our decision to give them something. The relatives that did ask us for something that was not label for any of us we did give it to them. I even have my Dad's retirement flag from 28 years in the Navy and my other Grandfather's Burial Flag from Canada which is in a shadow box but not folded in a particulate way because I couldn't find any protocol on Canadian Military flags.

    Thank you for your advice.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
    Robin Hickman likes this.
  14. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .....
    Hello, again, CMC990811 !

    Sounds like you've got all the appropriate bases "covered".

    RE: folding the Canadian flag. I don't think that there is a real good way to fold the Canadian Flag in a triangle that ends up looking "good", but then I've never tried. I think the Canadians fold their Flags in a square or a rectangle, as the "triangular" shape is kind of an American "thing". I'll go see if I can find anything (official or unofficial) regarding folding the Canadian Flag.

    If you happen to find any comments/replies here in the USA-Flag-Site Forum that are helpful, you can always "like" them by clicking on the "like" button in the lower right-hand corner of the entry.

    I'll be back soon, hopefully sometime tonight!

    Robin Hickman
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man"
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    .....
     
    Cmc990811 likes this.
  15. Cmc990811

    Cmc990811 New Member

    I'm a Cub Scout Den Leader, last year my Cubs learned a little Flag etiquette, this year we will go over what they remember and add to it. And they are going to learn how to fold the flag properly. I think I will try to find a piece of cloth that is 3' x 5'. I think that is the normal size I find for my home at the store.
     
    Robin Hickman likes this.
  16. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ...
    Hi, CMC990811 !

    Sounds like a good idea!

    Just a friendly reminder: If you're going to do a little refresher "Flag Etiquette" course for your Cub Scout Pack, make SURE you "refresh" yourself first. Dem Der Lil Cubbies can sneak up on you!!!

    Robin
    ...
     
  17. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ...
    I'm Ba-ack!!!

    RE : Folding the Canadian Flag.

    Apparently, there is NO officially preferred way to fold the Canadian Flag. BUT.....

    I found an "official" Canadian Defense Forces training video (on YouTube) about the proper way to fold a Canadian Flag during a Flag-folding ceremony. I sure hope you understand that previous sentence!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzTnGyhCP1g

    Also, a webpage for the Ceremonial Flag-folding :
    http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/pub/oth-aut/pcf-cpd/index-eng.asp

    Someone was also trying to find a way to fold a Canadian in triangle to put into a memorial box. I can't say that I actually understood the process, but maybe if I re-read it, I will!

    https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=122207.0

    BTW : The "official" size dimensions of the Canadian Flag are 1:2 (or 2:4, 3:6, 4:8, 5:10, etc.). The official dimensions of the U.S. Flag are 1:1.9.


    I found the pages on Google using the following search terms together:
    https://www.google.com/#q=%22Canadian+Flag%22+folding


    Gotta Go! Good Night!

    Robin Hickman
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man"
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    .....
     
  18. Cmc990811

    Cmc990811 New Member

    no dipping the flag, american flag always first. american flag starts on the left ends up on the right. if up at night must be light up, never let it touch anything under it, 50 stars on the union for each state, 13 red and white stripes, no flag flown with it can be bigger than it, I actually have a flag etiquette book in my cub scout bag :) but I can't make it to tough on them yet they are 7-8 yr old boys.
     
  19. Kimberly Herget

    Kimberly Herget New Member

    Thank You
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  20. Cmc990811

    Cmc990811 New Member

    How it goes it is Next of Kin:
    Spouse
    Oldest Child
    Second Oldest Child and so forth.

    It doesn't matter if he is cremated or not if he is a vet with a honorable discharge he is entitled to a flag, burial plaque. If you have a copy of his DD214 and she doesn't do the Military funeral I do think you can request a flag and plaque but you would also need Death Cert and your birth cert to prove who are you to him. As for VFW I do believe that is only for vets, is your dad currently a member of the VFW but don't quote me on that! I know if he is a member of the VFW you can request them to arrange a military service. If your father's current wife doesn't do the service you can get his flag still because you can request it.
     

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