Can you help identify this flag/banner

Discussion in 'Flag Identification and Collecting' started by mtmcdonough, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. mtmcdonough

    mtmcdonough New Member

    Hi. My brother thinks this flag or banner maybe from the White Star Line cruise ship company. It is about 50 X 32 inches. Red background with one big, white star. Thanks!

    mark
     

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  2. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Mark ("mtmcdonough") ! :D

    Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site forums !

    QUOTE : "Hi. My brother thinks this flag or banner maybe from the White Star Line cruise ship company. It is about 50 X 32 inches. Red background with one big, white star."

    MarksWhiteStarLineFlag.JPG

    I think your brother just might be right. Most of the one's I've see (mostly photos) were of a "swallowtail" shape as I remember.

    BUT..... I found one that looks to be about the same size and shape as the one you have! After taking a second look at the Flag, it looks like it might be a "swallowtail" ensign rather than a rectangular flag!

    http://www.titaniccommemoration.org.uk/18ap3.htm

    It's the 5th photo down the page !

    [​IMG]
    LUCY, MARIA AND ANN WITH AN ORIGINAL WHITE STAR LINE FLAG
    (p

    hoto taken by John Creamer)
    DISCLAIMER : I might be wrong as I've been a member here for only three months.

    Let us know if this helps !

    Thank you for bringing your Flag-related question to our forums !!!

    Robin Hickman
    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2009
  3. mtmcdonough

    mtmcdonough New Member

    Thanks, Robin. Our flag does not have the swallow-tail shape and does not have that white strip on the left side. The background is totally red.

    We'll see where this goes. Thanks, again!

    mark
     
  4. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

  5. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

  6. mtmcdonough

    mtmcdonough New Member

    Nick,

    Thanks for the reply. Would the flag need the yellow border?

    mark
     
  7. fast1

    fast1 Member

    hi and welcome mark![​IMG]
     
  8. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .
    Hi, Mark !

    I think Nick is right, but it might also be the flag of a Brigadier General in the U.S. Army, as their flags are also red with a single white star in the middle.

    [ On a side note : Since the official colors of the USMC are Red & Gold, I'm a little surprised that a Marine Corps General's flag doesn't have "Gold" stars instead of the white ones depicted on the FOTW page. ]

    BTW : The "Yellow Border" that you are referring to is probably the depiction of the ceremonial GOLD FRINGE on the outside hems of an indoor or parade flag. A regular "outdoor" flag does NOT have a ceremonial gold fringe!

    How are we doing ???


    Robin Hickman
    .
     
  9. mtmcdonough

    mtmcdonough New Member

    Robin,

    Thanks for you help! I think we're getting closer.

    mark
     
  10. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

    Robin is spot on about the "yellow border." It is just the fringe, which is only used on indoor or parade flags, and never used on flags raised outdoors on a pole. I forget, but did you say if there was any info printed on the heading?
    Nick
     
  11. mtmcdonough

    mtmcdonough New Member

    Nick,

    I could not find any writing or marks on the flag but maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Where is the "heading" to be found? Thanks.

    mark
     
  12. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Mark !

    The "heading" that Nick referred to ("header", "head strip", etc.) is also called the "hoist" (I think). It is that part of the Flag's construction that is connected to the flagpole's halyard so the Flag may be raised and lowered on the flagpole.

    Traditionally, the heading (header, head strip, et al) is made of heavy duty, light colored (usually white) canvas. On Flags 5'x8' or 6'x10' and smaller, there are two metal (usually brass) grommets, one at each end. Spring-loaded flag "clips", which are already attached to the halyard, hook through the grommets and secure the flag to the halyard. :D

    For most "Indoor" and some "Parade" flags where the flags are attached to a smaller pole (8' to 10' long and 1" to 1.25" in diameter is typical) instead of a halyard, a "pole sleeve" is used. The pole sleeve, which is usually the same color of the flag, slips over the top of the pole and slides all the way down to where the flag is connected to the top part of the pole. Ties, or sometimes velcro strips, are used to secure the flag to the pole. On Indoor/Parade flags, the pole sleeve (sometimes called the "pole hem") is where the manufacurer and/or owner would place their identifying marks.

    The purpose of Nick's question is that sometimes (but not always) the Flag's manufacturer and/or owner will print or stencil one or more identifying marks on the "heading". As you are probably well aware, it is not "proper" to write ON the flag itself, so the heading is the only real place to write anything.

    I hope that helps !!!

    Robin Hickman
    .
     
  13. mtmcdonough

    mtmcdonough New Member

    Robin,

    Thanks for all the information. The header on this flag or banner is made of the same material of the flag itself except that it has a white backing - not quite canvas. There are two leather tabs at each end of the header - sewn on the inside of the header. Each tab has a hole punched and then a cut in the leather like this O----. I can't find any markings at all. Sorry to make you work so hard to figure this one out!

    mark
     
  14. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

    Mark,
    The heading is most curios! It is a pole sleeve for use on a flagstaff to be carried in a parade or for display indoors. For a flag to have a pole sleeve but no fringe is curious indeed. Pole sleeves are very common for military flags and colors, but I would not expect a corporate or house flag (ie White Star Line) to have many indoor flags with sleeves - it would have a roped heading with becket and toggle or inglefield clips if made in Europe, or brass grommets if made in the US for flying from the ship's mast or in front of corporate offices. Official US Military flags purchased under Gov't contract often have a label sewn insid the sleeve, making it very difficult to read at times. Can you see if there is a label or where a label once was?
     
  15. mtmcdonough

    mtmcdonough New Member

    Hi. I was able to carefully turn the entire heading inside out. There are no markings or signs of a label. There are only the two leather pieces at each end with the hole and slit. Sorry! Thanks for the help!

    mark
     

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