Displaying Foreign Country Flag

Discussion in 'US Flag Display' started by Trudy Pierce, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. Trudy Pierce

    Trudy Pierce New Member

    Since we are at War with Iraq - is it proper for a flag of any foreign country to be flown on top of a office building without the American Flag being flown beside it or above it?
     
  2. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    Hello, Trudy Pierce !!! :D

    Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site forums !!!


    QUOTE : "Since we are at War with Iraq - is it proper for a flag of any foreign country to be flown on top of a office building without the American Flag being flown beside it or above it?"


    Well, Trudy, I'm not quite sure where to start! So, I guess I'll start somewhere near the beginning and stumble my way though to the end, or thereabouts.

    #1 I was NOT aware that we are at war with Iraq. I'm pretty sure we are NOT.

    #2 Regardless as to whether we are, or are NOT, at war with Iraq, I believe that the part of the U.S. Code that deals with the U.S. Flag (AKA: the "Flag Code"), and International Treaties on the subject, pretty much prohibit flying one national flag OVER another. My understanding of it is that when two or more national flags are flown together, they are to be flown side-by-side on flagpoles of equal height.

    #3 As for a foreign flag flying by itself on top of a building being "proper" or not, I'll leave that to others to advise you on. MY opinion is that I would assume that if the building is a foreign embassy (or part of one) that it is perfectly "okay" and to be expected. If the building is owned (or leased) and operated by a foreign-based company, and especially if the building is acting as that company's headquarters here in the U.S., that it would STILL be somewhat "okay" because their "loyalty" is to THEIR "homeland" and not to ours, right? It's their company, it's their building, it's their flagpole, it's their flag, and it's their own brand of "national patriotism", so it's their choice.

    My opinion may, or may not, be "correct", all or part, on any part, or all of, your question, Trudy. But, let's look on the "bright side"!

    My right to express my opinion is ensured and protected by the Constitution of the United States of America, and in particular, it's 1st Amendment :

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    And just as my right to express my opinion is protected by the 1st Amendment, so are the right of those foreign guys in their foreign building with its foreign flagpole flying their foreign flag !!!

    But then, that's just MY opinion.....


    Thank you for bringing your Flag-related question to our Forums !!!


    Robin Hickman
     
  3. Trudy Pierce

    Trudy Pierce New Member

    I stand corrected, I meant to say IN Iraq. I should also have been more specific, it's an American owned business with no foreign relationship at all. I was able to answer this question myself......
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif']UNITED STATES CODE[/FONT]
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif']TITLE 36[/FONT]
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif']CHAPTER 10[/FONT]

    §175. Position and manner of display

    c) No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof.

    - I believe the "IN PLACE OF" is the answer.
     
  4. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    Hi, Trudy !

    Congratulations on finding the answer to your question, and Thank You for bringing it back here to share with us !!! :D


    IF I understand correctly, you're saying that an "American" business in your area is flying a "foreign" flag on a flagpole on top of their building and there is NO American Flag flying along side it. Is that right? :confused:

    I'm NOT a "mind reader" (and I don't play one on TV!), but I AM very curious about this, so I've GOT to ask the BIG question : WHY is an American company flying a "foreign" flag from a building on American soil ??? :eek:

    Does ANYONE in your area know WHY they are flying a "foreign" flag on their building? Has anyone there asked them WHY they're doing that? Are they REALLY a totally owned AMERICAN company, or are they an American company that is a wholly owned subsidiary of a "foreign" multi-national corporation ???

    Trudy, would you please let us know what you find out about it ?

    Thank You !

    Robin Hickman
     
  5. CPHIL

    CPHIL New Member

    Robin, Trudy, All,

    Very good, and it is also in relation to my prior question. Is there a penal code(I believe that is the right legal jargon) attached? Otherwise it is just voluntary. I want to make clear that I am not one to split hairs over whether the letter of the code is followed, whether someone folded the flag correctly,or some minor infraction, or heck, maybe a somewhat major infraction. I don't drive around picking at these things. On the other hand, major, intentional disrespect for flag and country, particularly when it involves foriegn flags flown alone does concern me. Especially if it gets to the point that it does not really require a mind reader to determine that there is disrespect of sovernty intended. I am not saying it happens--or not. Just, well, legally is it something we would have to tolerate if it did? Maybe this is outside the realm of this site somewhat, but the legal question should not be. And if one part of the code is enforceable, then so is the rest. THANKS, Chris
     
  6. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .
    Hi, Chris (CPHIL) ! :D

    Hello, Trudy & ALL ! :D & :D

    [ NOTE To All : Chris (CPHIL) had started a thread titled, "Enforcement Of Flag Etiquette" in the "Other U.S. Flag Etiquette" Forum. Chris' thread is VERY similar to this one, so I made an entry "over there" (including a link) about THIS thread. IF you think you might be interested in the "other" thread, here's the link to it : http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/enforcement-of-flag-ett-5891.html ]

    Talk to y'all, later ! :D

    Robin Hickman
    .
     
  7. purpleladay

    purpleladay New Member

    Hey,

    I have repeatedly seen some things with the flags that are not sitting with me at all.
    1) We have a lot of foreign flags in my city, at the chinese buffet, at the public transit building, at the mexican businesses and consulate, and other places. It is greatly disturbing to me that whenever our American Flag is at half mast, NONE of those foreign flags are lowered. At the public transit building the American Flag is lower than the other 7 or 8 foreign flags. So therefore, those countries are above America during that day. What is the apporpiate way to deal with this?

    2) I have been repeatedly looking for information about the gold fringe on the bottom, or all around the flag. What is it? Why is there? What law authorises the change and destruction of the American Flag? What new laws does it represent? Why is it being flown in court rooms? Why, when you ask the judge to explain the meaning of that flag, you are told to sit down and shut up? I started seeing this flag after the illegals march on the flag in 2007 when they were all yelling "Seize the flag". Are we now under a form of hispanic rule?

    3) I know it is legal to remove the American Flag and burn it as an act of Freedom of Speech, with no retribution for destruction of property, so is it also legal to remove and burn a foreign flag?

    Thanks,
    Mary
     
  8. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Hi, Mary -- welcome to the forum.

    whenever our American Flag is at half mast, NONE of those foreign flags are lowered. At the public transit building the American Flag is lower than the other 7 or 8 foreign flags. So therefore, those countries are above America during that day. What is the apporpiate way to deal with this?

    This is a tricky question, because there are two conflicting rules of protocol involved. One is that a nation's flag should not be flown higher than another nation's flag. The other is that each nation has the right to determine when its flag should be flown at half-staff. In the situation you describe, it wouldn't be right to half-staff the foreign flags unless those governments had so directed.

    The civilian "flag code" does not address this problem. However, it is discussed in some military regulations. The US Air Force (AFI34-1201, para 2.10.4), says: "No flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States. The only exception is when the flag of the United States is flown at half-staff for an official observance, foreign national flags may be above the flag of the United States." The corresponding US Navy regulation (NAVREGS Ch. 12 para 1264.4) says: "When directed by the President, the national ensign shall be flown at half-mast at military facilities and naval vessels and stations abroad whether or not the ensign of another nation is flown full-mast alongside that of the United States."

    These regulations only apply to the military services, of course, but they're probably pretty good guidelines for civilian use as well. The bottom line is that it's OK to fly the US flag at half-staff beside a foreign flag at full-staff. This is a specific exception to the general rule that all national flags should be at the same height. By the way, the context of the Air Force regulation that I quoted is that the flags are flown on side-by side on separate poles. The regulation does not say that the two flags can be flown one above the other on the same pole.

    I have been repeatedly looking for information about the gold fringe on the bottom, or all around the flag. What is it? Why is there?

    It is there for decoration. Decorative fringes on flags are a tradition that goes back long before the US was founded. There is no law, regulation, or other document that assigns any symbolic or legal meaning to fringes on flags. This topic has been discussed extensively in the "flag design and construction" section here.

    it is legal to remove the American Flag and burn it as an act of Freedom of Speech, with no retribution for destruction of property, so is it also legal to remove and burn a foreign flag?

    First of all, it is not legal to "remove" an American flag. Flags belong to someone. Theft and destruction of property are crimes, whether the item in question is a flag or something else. I don't know if there has ever been a legal case involving burning a foreign flag, but I'd assume that the 1989 Supreme Court decisons would (by similar reasoning) apply to them as well.

    Peter Ansoff
     

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