G SPEC- Government Specified U.S. Flags

Discussion in 'US Flag Specs and Design' started by IwantGSPEC, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Matt ! :D


    One way or the other, by e-mail or telephone, GOOD LUCK !!! :D


    Robin :cool:

    PS. It might come in handy if you happen to have a few photographs of your Flag that show just how far "off" it really is. After all, it IS a "Government Specifications" Flag, isn't it ??? :eek:
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  2. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

  3. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Matt !


    Wow! :eek: It looks even WORSE than I had imagined !!! :eek: :eek:

    Definitely a manufacturing "problem"! And by the looks of it, one that goes beyond the "factory second" or "factory blem" stages!

    FWIW : You might try to get a picture (or two) of the entire Flag (all in one shot) folded in half so it shows the disparity in the fly corners. :rolleyes:


    Robin
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  4. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

    The point of this one is just to show that the folded part is lined up. It's taken with a wide-angle, so the perspective exaggerates any discrepency.
    http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~mjr/temp/DSC_6038.JPG

    Folded into quarters:
    http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~mjr/temp/DSC_6041.JPG

    Closeup of the misaligned part:
    http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~mjr/temp/DSC_6040.JPG

    When you said folded in half, I know what you meant, but getting the problem to show up when folded in that direction is hard because it's difficult to know if it's folded in half in a straight line. That is, since the bottom the flag is shorter than the top, when I fold it in half that way, the tendency is to line up the fly end with the hoist end--the result is that the part of the flag that's folded is at an angle, but you can't see it well.
     
  5. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Matt ! :D


    When I said "folded in half", I meant (of course) lengthwise so that the bottoms and tops of the hoist (header) and fly ends are folded in on themselves.

    The idea of having the whole Flag folded in half in one shot is to not only show the "problem", but to show that there's no "trickery" involved.

    Not for OUR benefit, mind you, but for the good folks at the Valley Forge Flag Company! We want THEM to SEE their "out of square" G-Spec Flag and replace it at no additional charge to you. :D

    Although the vendor you bought the Flag from MIGHT be of some assistance, I really think it's a MANUFACTURING problem. :eek:

    As always..... GOOD LUCK !!! :D


    Robin
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  6. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

    Ah, indeed, well since you're giving me all this motivation to get this addressed, here's one more pic for your benefit anyway :p

    http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~mjr/temp/DSC_6048.JPG

    I guess when I call them I'll tell them they can look at this one. It seems pretty clear.

    Getting this picture was rather difficult because of the large size of the thing. Good thing for wideangle lenses :p
     
  7. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Matt !


    QUOTE : "Getting this picture was rather difficult because of the large size of the thing."

    I had kind of, sort of, thought of that AFTER posting the suggestion. :eek:

    It occurred to me that the SMALLEST "G-Spec" flag I could recall was 5'x9.5'. Most ceilings are about 7'8" or so, and that would make it pretty hard to take a picture of it (the entire Flag) indoors.

    It looks to me that you've got a pretty good shot of it ! :D


    When you get in contact with them (VF Flag) you'll have something "on hand" that backs up your claim right then and there! :eek:

    BOOYA !!! :D


    Robin
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  8. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

    Categories | Valley Forge Flag

    Valley Forge does actually sell others that are smaller. I think the one I bought is sort of in the middle in terms of sizes available.
     
  9. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    G-Spec sizes (as per Valley Forge Flag Co.) :


    2' 4 7/16" x 4'6" (Two feet, four and seven sixteenths inches by four feet, six inches)

    3'6" x 6'8" (Three feet, six inches by six feet, eight inches)

    5' x 9'6" (Five feet by nine feet, six inches)

    8' 11 3/8 x 17' (Eight feet, eleven and three eighths inches by seventeen feet)

    10' x 19' (Ten feet by nineteen feet)



    Learn something NEW every day, eh ??? :cool:



    Robin

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  10. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

    I called them up, and they cited a 5% tolerance, so from their perspective there's nothing wrong. 5% of 9.5 feet is 5.7 inches, but this flag is not screwed up that much.

    I wonder if I should have been an irritating customer and quoted the 2% figure from the spec? :p

     
  11. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

    Just for grins I called them back, because I wanted to ask if they made any flags with tighter tolerances so they could be folded up properly as a triangle. This time, they said I had to contact the distributor that I bought the flag from. Hehe.

    So, now that I'm frustrated with their phone support, I emailed them at info@valleyforgeflag.com

    ==============

    [FONT=&quot]Hello,[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]I recently purchased a 5x9.5' flag from one of your distributors, Flags, US Flags, American Flags, Custom Flags & Banners, Military Flags, Country Flags, Flagpoles, Quinn Flags.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]The trouble is that the dimensions of this flag are not within the government specification, as per the DDD-F-416F:[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]==================[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]A tolerance of +/- 5 percent shall be allowed for all dimensions exceeding 4 inches, except that the maximum and minimum measurements of the same dimensions on a single flag may not differ by more than 2 percent of each other and both measurements be within 5 percent tolerance on the minus side or plus side [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]==================[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]The specification is available here: ASSIST-QuickSearch - Basic Profile[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]The specific difficulty is that the bottom dimension is more than 2% different from the top of the flag. I’ve posted a picture of it here:[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~mjr/temp/DSC_6048.JPG[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Measurement suggests that the bottom is 3.5 inches shorter than the top. The result is that this flag is very difficult to fold into the usual triangle shape.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Do you have any recommendations?[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]I attached a copy of the receipt from when I purchased the flag.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Thanks and regards,[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Matt[/FONT]
     
  12. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Matt ! :D


    FWIW : I think you should have cited the 2% specification AND played the "irritated customer" in a very cordial but determined way!

    BTW : I like your "follow up" e-mail, too ! :D


    Of course, I probably would have also asked some extra questions somewhere along the line. Sometimes you just gotta "shame" them into doing the "Right Thing". :eek:

    "Am I to understand that the Valley Forge Flag Company no longer follows or uses 'Quality Control' standards or procedures during the manufacturing process for officially sanctioned U. S. Government Specification Flags?"

    "Does this mean that the Valley Forge Flag Company is NOT proud of, nor 'stand behind', ANY of the United States Flags that they manufacture, ESPECIALLY the 'Government Spec.' U.S. Flags?"


    There are some other questions and "points" that could be raised. Such as out-of-spec, misshapen American Flags made by VF showing up at military/veteran funerals, spreading "the Word" about VF's shoddy manufacturing process and refusal to "make things right", or being a member of the largest USA FLAG Forums on the planet (ie. USA-Flag-Site.org), etc.


    This is just my way of attempting to encourage you to "stick with it" and get VF Flag to do the right thing and replace the "Out-Of-Spec" G-Spec American Flag that they made !!! :D


    Robin
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  13. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

  14. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

    Well I'll see what they say, if they reply. The first time I'd contacted them via the form on their website. This time was via an email. Hopefully someone checks at least one of these communication channels.

    If not, I guess I'll have to call them again :p I can understand if their perspective is that they only talk to wholesalers, but their website strongly suggests that they are interested in hearing from consumers as well. They really ought to clarify what kind of relationship they want to have with schmoes like me :)

    Ah, almost forgot to add that I read the link--pretty funny stuff. I guess consumers only care if the flag is made in the US, not the rest of the pieces?
     
  15. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Matt ! :D


    My guess is that the Valley Forge Flag Company is pretty much like Annin & Company in "who" they think their customers are and how they deal with them.

    As near as I can figure out, VF's, Annin's, and other MAJOR Flag manufacturers' (like CF Flag, Eder Flag, etc.) "main" customers are DISTRIBUTORS and MAJOR retail outlets, and possibly the Federal government. The only "evidence" I have that backs that up is that's who they all seem to "market" their products to.

    The manufacturers market (or "sell") their products to regional distributors, who sell them to the district distributors, who sell to the retail outlets, who then sell them to US, the consumers. It even works that way (sort of ) on the internet.

    The people whose money FUELS the whole engine have the LEAST amount of influence in the "marketing" process. IF the Flag Manufacturers were marketing their products to US, the consumers, we'd have a whole LOT more "leverage". Of course that would complicate things for the manufacturers because then they'd have to hire more people to deal with all of us!

    I think they like dealing with as few people as possible, especially if those "few" people were also in the "Flag Biz" and spoke the same language.


    Oh, Well . . . . .


    IF you really want VF to replace the defective Flag, I'd say keep after them. Keep after them persistantly in a cordially businesslike manner. Try to find someone in the company that knows and understands the importance of the company's REPUTATION as a manufacturer of well-made American Flags !!!

    On the other hand, Quinn Flags (the retailer) is supposedly set up to deal with customers. So, hopefully, they take the term "Customer Service" seriously. :cool:


    As always . . . . . GOOD LUCK !!! :D


    Robin
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  16. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

    They replied to the email I'd written and repeated that I should take it up with Quinn Flags instead. So, that's what I'm going to do. They did, at least, agree that flag was defective. :p
     
  17. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Matt ! :D


    QUOTE : "They did, at least, agree that flag was defective."


    IN WRITING ?!?!?!?!?! :eek: :eek: :eek:



    Robin
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  18. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    BTW : Good Luck with Quinn Flags !!! :D


    My two guesses are that Quinn Flags will "take care of it", and that you'll have to "take care" of the shipping !!! :eek: :eek:


    And I guess that will take care of that, right ?!?!? :D


    Robin
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  19. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

    The second sentence suggests that they believe the flag is defective :p

    My guess it that you're right, so we'll see what Quinn Flags says. I don't mind paying the shipping, I'd just like one that's not quite so screwed up :)
     
  20. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    GOOD LUCK and keep us posted !!! :D


    Have a "peaceful" VETERANS' DAY !!! :D



    Robin :eek: .
     

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