Idenfication of 25 stars flalg

Discussion in 'Flag Identification and Collecting' started by TheKratos1945, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. TheKratos1945

    TheKratos1945 New Member

    Hello guys, im a new user from Italy and im an appassionate of ancient U.S. flags. I was looking for a very old flag, at least before civil war and talking with a seller on Ebay, he sent me this photo of a very old flag, a mini 25 stars, which would date back from 1836 when Arkansas joined in the Union. Unfortunately the photo has a bad quality and he told me he will send a better one. I wanted if is possible, to know if the flag dates back to 1836, thanks.

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  2. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    Hello, Kratos, and welcome to the USA-FLAG-SITE Forums!

    I am NOT an "expert" on antique American (U.S.) Flags, so I can't offer you an "educated" opinion on your 25-Star stick Flag.

    I can tell you that up until now every 25-Star U.S. Flag I've ever seen had its Stars in the 5x5 configuration. I can also caution you to NOT automatically believe everything that you are told by a seller/vendor on eBay, but then you probably already know that.

    If you want to know anything about an antique American Flag, or you're looking to purchase one, I recommend that you check out Jeff Bridgman's website. Mr. Bridgman is an acknowledged and recognized expert on antique Flags.

    Here is a link to Jeff Bridgman's website.

    Good Luck!

    Robin Hickman
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man"
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
  3. David Wagner

    David Wagner Member

    If it is real then you have an awesome find. I don't recall ever seeing a photo or even a description of a flag that old at that small size or on a stick before. Authentic 25-star flags are also exceedingly rare. That does make me question whether it is actually from 1836. If I were to bet, my first guess would be a centennial celebration flag for Arkansas' statehood - so 1936. My second guess is perhaps a late-war Civil War exclusionary flag. Nevada became the 36th state in October 1864. The 36-star flag wasn't official until July 1865. However, in the 7 months between Nevada becoming a state and the end of the Civil War in May 1865, subtracting out the 11 Confederate states from the 36 total states you get 25. A 25-star exclusionary flag might be possible.

    In addition to Jeff Bridgman that Robin referenced above, here are a few other sites I like to visit and look at their flags. One of these may be able to provide some additional insight. I wish you luck in your hunt.
  4. David Wagner

    David Wagner Member

    I continued to look and found a 25-star Exclusionary flag sold by Jeff Bridgman:

    This theory for your flag might be moving up on my odds board. Mr. Bridgman gives two possible occasions for the 25-star count. Copied below are passages taken verbatim from his listing:

    The 25 stars on this particular flag represents a count that could theoretically have been chosen for that purpose at more than one time during the course of the war. The most likely scenario occurred in mid-1861 following Arkansas secession. Between late 1860 and early 1861, 7 slaveholding Southern States voted for secession (South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas). The group officially agreed to leave the Union together on February 2nd, 1861, in what is called "the first wave of secession." These were followed by Virginia and Arkansas as numbers 8 and 9 respectively... there is a period of approximately 1 month when the number of states that supported the Union might be represented by the 34 there were in total, ignoring secession, less the 9 that were seceding, which equals 25.

    Another possibility to arrive at a count of 25 occurred near the end of the war, following the June, 1863 addition of West Virginia and the October, 1864 addition of Nevada. By this time there were 11 states that had voted for secession by popular vote, with the state governments ratifying.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018

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