looking to buy my first flag, have many questions

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Flag Discussion' started by mike123, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. mike123

    mike123 New Member

    hello all,

    i just signed up to this site because i have questions, and i know you people have answers! and by putting both here, others with the same questions will find answers as well.
    i have recently decided that i want to fly a flag off of my front porch, i figured with a 3x5 foot flag (only because i can't seem to find anything like 2.5'x4.5' {1:1.9 ratio} smaller than full, 20'x38' or half-size, 10'x19' grrr) anyway, i figure that on a six foot pole around 30 degrees, since the diagonal of the 3'x5' is around 70 inches, i can mount a 3'x5' flag where it will look nice, not end up on the roof, and not blow into anyone's face while they, or i, am walking up the steps. (this is the biggest i could practically hang off the two posts of my little porch stoop)-i did a little mock up with a tape measure and 70" of rope.
    anyway, one of my questions to the community here, is what sellers on ebay, sell a quality flag, ( 3'x5' unless someone has a similar size with a 10:19 ratio) at a reasonable price? also is it true that cotton and/or poly-cotton blends don't last too long outside, i would bring it in if the weather gets too bad but if there's a bad storm id hate to come home and see it flying with a big old rip in it. are nylon ones nicer? will a three piece, six foot pole be sturdy enough for a 3'x5'?

    also, sorry if this isn't the place to ask about this, but I'm leaning towards flying it along side a Gadsden. on a separate pole also 30 degrees on an opposite (symmetrical) post. (both leaning 30 degrees toward the street) it will also be 3'x5' (would be slightly smaller if i could fine the right ratios (10:19 for old glory, 10:18 for the Gadsden). it is my understanding (interpretation) that since the American flag is generally supposed to be on "its own right", should be on the post which appears on the left to people walking or driving by. Will this arrangement offend anyone? (other than people who just like to complain) Would there be anything improper or offensive about having a gold (gold colored, i'm not rich) eagle on top of the American flag, while having a spearhead on top of the Gadsden? I seem to remember reading somewhere about it only being proper to display an American flag publicly with a spear under certain very specific circumstances relating to war.
    If i do this, I know the American flag always has the union closest to the top of the pole on both sides. For the Gadsden, I've found some "double sided" flags on ebay which would be nice, especially since it has print. one problem i have with them is i haven't seen one that shows pictures of both sides. Do these double sided flags look nice, or do they become hard to read if the sun is anywhere behind them? thank you to any who took the time to read this long post, I've been trying to research this on the net and sometimes its hard, i figure if i could find a site where people know their stuff about flags, this is it. any feedback anyone would give me would be very well appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  2. csaanv

    csaanv Member

    Hi mike,
    Google G-Spec flags and you can purchase the smaller size you want. The G-spec flags are made to the official government specs in nylon and cotton by Valley Forge. There are different distributors so shop around as some really jack the prices up. Hope this helps.
    mike
     
  3. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ...
    Hello, Mike123 ! :cool:

    Welcome to the USA_Flag-Site forums! :cool:

    You might want to consider getting a pair of 7-foot "spinning" flagpoles to fly your two Flags from. You might also consider getting a pair of 13-position adjustable flagpole brackets (cast aluminum, NOT nylon or plastic!) to hold your flagpoles and Flags.

    The 7' spinning flagpoles will address two seperate issues: helping to keep your Flags un-furled and keeping them out of the dreaded gutters! The top "half" of the poles spin on a set of ball bearings, and the weight of the Flag and the force of the wind helps keep in un-furled and flying fully and freely. The 7 foot length keeps your Flag a little further away from the edge of roof eave and its "flag-eating" gutter! An additional benefit that is not often thought of with 7' poles, is that it is very easy to fly a smaller 2'x3' or 2.5'x4' Flag at the "half-staff" position.

    The cast aluminum (NOT plastic or nylon!) 13-position adjustable brackets can come in VERY handy if you need to change the angle of the flagpoles so that they and their Flags look "just right". Or they can be set at the 90 degree angle to hang decorative or athletic team banners. Another benefit of the 13 position brackets is that they can be mounted on surfaces other than ones that are fully vertical or horizontal.

    FLAG SIZES : I'd recommend flying "standard" sized (house) Flags mainly because they are so much easier to find and much more inexpensive for the quality you get. Also, the "G-Spec" (Government Specifications) U.S. Flags are the ONLY ones with the 1:1.9 hoist-to-fly ratio, thus making it a little more difficult to "match" Flag sizes with other Flags. The most prevalent sizes for "house" U.S. Flags are 2'x3', 2.5'x4', 3'x5', and 4'x6', with the 3'x5' size being, by far, the most popular. Almost all "other" Flags made in the USA by Flag Manufacturers come in the 2'x3', 3'x5', and 4'x6' sizes. These "other" Flags include State, Military, Historical (such as the Gadsden), International, Sports, and "specialty" Flags. Again, the 3'x5' size is, by far, the most "popular" and easiest to find.

    Gadsden Flags: My experience with 2-sided Gadsden Flags is that there is ONE "basic" way that they are made, whether they are printed, appliqued, or embroidered. That one basic way is to sew two complete Gadsden Flags (or any other Flags except for the State of Oregon Flag) Back-To-Back and then attach a "header" (hoist) to them. The "up" side is that you have a 2-sided Flag. The "down" side is that your 2-sided Flag is twice as heavy as a single-sided Flag and requires a lot more wind to "fly". ALL of the 2-sided Gadsden (and POW*MIA) Flags that were made in this "basic" manner that I've seen were imported from China. I don't know if there are any U.S. manufacturers who make two sided Gadsden Flags. If there are, I would assume that they would make them in a manner similar to the way they make their 2-sided POW*MIA Flags, and the State Flags of Oregon and Washington. The main body of the Flag is one piece of fabric with the appropriate panels sewn on to either side of the Flag.

    I hope this helps you in some small manner. If you have any observations, or additional questions, feel free to reply in this thread. ;)

    Thank You!


    Robin Hickman
    ("Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man")
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    ...
     
  4. mike123

    mike123 New Member

    I want to thank everyone for all the quick responses. I found some of the g-spec flags online. I'm glad to know that they exist. Even though they cost more I would be willing to pay the extra money for one, I guess it's partly supply and demand, and partly all the intricacies laid out buy the government in their specs. The only reason I have not bought one yet, is a have yet to find a g-spec Gadsden flag. I don't believe (hope i'm wrong here) that there are as many official sizes for the Gadsden, but if I could find one with the same hoist and a slightly shorter fly than the American, I would buy it up quick. If I remember correctly, a marine told me that they flew a full sized American flag 20'x38' with a full Gadsden 20'x36' under it on the same pole. (showing a 1:1.8 ration for the Gadsden) I would love to get an American 2' 4-7/16" x 4' 6" if I could find a corresponding sized Gadsden (2' 4-7/16" x roughly 4' 3-1/8")
    Also just want to say, I will not, even if its of the highest quality, for 10 cents, buy any type of American flag, whether it be THEE American flag, or the Gadsden flag that was made in China or anywhere but here in the states. Just wanted to put that out there.
    I don't know, maybe i'm just being too picky, but there seems to me to be something about the longer aspect ratio that strikes a more majestic looking note to me. not to mention that it i would assume the American flag was made with a slightly longer fly for a reason.(maybe not) Thanks again for helping me out with trying to sort this all out. If anyone knows where to get a Gadsden flag with a 1:1.8 ratio please let me know.
     
  5. csaanv

    csaanv Member

    Hi mike,
    Good luck with that. The government does not officially sanction the Gadsden flag and hence there are no G-spec Gadsden flags. They have adopted the "Don't Tread On Me" flag or otherwise known as the "First Naval Jack". (Whether in fact it was the actually the first naval jack is debatable). In any case the Gadsden flags are made by civilian flagmakers in many sizes. There is a site called Don't Tread On Me Flags, Gadsden Flags & Don't Tread On Me Shirt: GadsdenAndCulpeper.com and they sell Gadsden flags in large sizes.
     
  6. mike123

    mike123 New Member

    thanks for the link,
    As for the "1st Navy jack", and it being the first, It's Interesting, all the sources I've found that I would trust say it's pretty inconclusive.
    The colonial settlers definitely were fascinated with rattlesnakes, which they never saw in England, ever since Jamestown, which were (and still are) prominent across the northeast (and other parts of the) US.
    There's no doubt that rattlesnakes (usually in a coil as if ready to strike) were used with the "Don't tread on me" motto throughout the revolution and well before.
    Some of what i've found (from sources which seem reputable) suggest that whether "official" or not, the Appeal to Heaven was flown first on Navy ships.

    A flag with 13 stripes (7 red, 6 white) was flown by many at sea (Grand Union flag minus the British union)
    I could see The Navy ( Early Navy, 1775, Massachusetts-->US ) taking this independent colonial ensign and affixing a snake and the "dont tread on me" motto to it. Of course I wasn't there but it seems likely to me. (removing the British part, then when thing's got hot, warning them not to tread)

    Anyway as far as my porch goes, I'm probably going to go with 3x5's for each because it seems I would have to get it custom made if I really wanted a Gadsden in the 10:18 ratio. btw I don't know if that's any kind of official ratio, I just know that's what an old Marine i knew told me they flew under the American flag on a base he was stationed on and i thought it'd look kind of cool, while being slightly smaller hence subordinate to the American flag. I think while the G-spec flags, especially their proportions, look really nice, that they would have to be way up on a big pole to really fly right on anything but a really windy day anyway.

    ***Also, I'd like to know from people with experience in flying flags of different material, the advantages and disadvantages of each I read about:
    cotton flags, polyester flags, cotton/poly blended flags, nylon,..... here's where I pretty much get lost.
    Im leaning towards nylon, because from what I read, They're fairly durable and more importantly, (because they'll effectively be flying about 6 feet from a wall hence little wind) they fly easier, that is that a lesser wind has more on an effect in moving the flag about.

    I read about nylon, being "coated", "uncoated", "solar-max", "200 Denier" "Nyl-Glow"
    I don't really know what any of this means. what's worse is online stores that sell varieties of these types of flags often use the same picture for all kinds. okay for someone who knows what they're looking for, but not to the un-informed shopper. plus when they do show different pictures of them, the pictures are basically worthless (for comparison purposes) because they're typically laying out, and have different lighting, etc.
    If I had a flag store, I'd have (besides knowledge of flag materials) if selling them online, I'd have a clip of One flag pole, showing 5-10 secs each of flags of different types, from the same viewpoint, maybe all in low wind, then medium, higher wind, etc. sorry to rant, its just a little frustrating that no matter how much i look on the internet, I can't tell how they're going to look hanging/flying.

    Basically, I just want two flags that will look nice. I want them to float along nicely in medium wind, which even though they will be close to a wall, they will be on a south facing wall, and here in southern Illinois the wind most often goes west to east (which should work in my favor) I can settle on 3x5's, they're probably more practical for where they'll be flying anyway. Another factor is the way the sun can shine through a flag. (maybe there's a term for this?) I think a little looks okay if there's a bright sun behind it, but not too much.

    I really do appreciate all the help I've gotten from all you people. I'll show pictures once I get my flags and hang them. (even though they're nothing special as far as collectible, rare, etc.)

    Since most here are flag experts, could you please share your opinions as to what flag material seems like it would be the best fit for what I'm talking about doing? The major differences in flags of different materials? How easy/hard they fly? How shiny/dull/see-through the various materials are comparatively? What is the difference in how the color pops out at you? (mainly at a glance, from a distance)
     
  7. mike123

    mike123 New Member

    any help on this?
    i know some of you must have tried flying the same sized flag, made of different materials, from the same pole.
    any info to share on how they differ?
    in flight? in luster? in sheerness? in boldness of color?
     
  8. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ...
    Hi, Mike!

    What are your "Top 5" questions about buying your first Flag and I'll do my best to answer them. All I ask is that you keep them "simple" and that you enumerate them (ie. #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5). That will make it a LOT easier for me to answer them and a LOT easier for you (and everyone else that reads them) to read and understand the answers.

    OK ???

    BTW : Did you read my earlier reply (above)?

    Thank you!

    Robin Hickman
    ("Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man")
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    ...
     
  9. mike123

    mike123 New Member

    yes Robin, I did read your reply, and it was very informative, I appreciate it.
    and i have been trying to find a Gadsden made in the fashion of one piece of material, with the snake and motto affixed to each side.
    I'm still wondering though :

    1- what are the general advantages/disadvantages of the different materials available, price not being all that much of a factor (so long as reasonable) as far as color boldness, sheerness, ease of flight, and any other perks, or drawbacks of various materials?
    (I don't necessarily need a full description of each one, but just in general, why would someone prefer or not prefer one type over the other?)

    2- nylon - I'd like to know a little about the differences in "coated", "uncoated", "solar-max", "200 Denier", "Nyl-Glow", etc. and how these relate to the qualities above, and if one or more of these types of construction of nylon flags is significantly superior/inferior to the others.

    I really do appreciate all the helpful comments and feedback I've gotten so far, sorry I forgot to express that before.
     
  10. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ... Hi, Mike!

    Sorry for the short delay in answering your questions! My wife decided that "WE" should have a garage/yard sale. While helping her get ready for the garage sale, and trying to talk her out of it, I haven't had much time to make a reply here. But not to worry! I haven't forgotten, and I'll answer your questions as soon as I can!

    For What It's Worth (FWIW): In all the years I've dealt with Flags I have NEVER heard the term "coated Flags". The only thing I can think of is either that person who used the term is either referring to regular cloth/fabric of some kind that has been manufactured with heavy clear coating of plastic so as to make the fabric waterproof (such as a table cloth). OR... Maybe "coated Flags" refers to a Flag whose fabric has been sprayed with some kind of a teflon/PVS coating to help it shed rainwater. Only guesses, mind you, since I've never heard of the term before.

    TTYL - Talk to You Later!

    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    ...
     
  11. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ...
    Hi, Mike!

    My answers will try, for the most part, to keep in mind your stated desires as to what you'll be using your Flag(s) for (OUTDOOR "house" Flags) and that the Flag(s) be made in the USA. I may, at times, digress off the "main path", but I'll do my best to keep those digressions to a minimum. Keep in mind that my answers here are based, in part, on MY OPINIONS.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    QUESTION #1 : "1- what are the general advantages/disadvantages of the different materials available, price not being all that much of a factor (so long as reasonable) as far as color boldness, sheerness, ease of flight, and any other perks, or drawbacks of various materials?"

    There are three "main" factors to keep in mind when selecting a Flag fabric: Appearance, Fly-ability, and Durability. A possible fourth factor would be Cost.
    There are three "main" Flag fabrics currently in use are Cotton, Polyester, and Nylon. A fourth fabric that is also in use, is the "low cost" Polyester/Cotton (PolyCotton) blend.

    COTTON : Cotton is THE "traditional" Flag fabric. People like it because of the way it "feels" (AKA: its "Hand"). It is somewhat dull in appearance due to being a "natural" plant fiber. Almost all, if not all, Flags used for funerals of active duty personnel and veterans are cotton "interment" Flags (also known as "burial", "funeral" or "casket" Flags). Because cotton is a "natural", plant-based fabric, it will soak up water which makes it susceptible to mold and mildew problems. Also, when cotton Flags get wet they become much heavier when they get wet. The extra weight puts additional stress on the Flag, especially in windy conditions, thus shortening its useful "life-span". Another "problem" with cotton flags is the tendency for the colors to fade over time when exposed to direct sunlight. Even with more durable, longer lasting, fabric dyes developed for cotton fabrics over the years, fading is still a bit of a problem for cotton Flags. Cotton Flags are of two types: heavier two-ply woven ("open" weave) "bunting", and lighter single-ply "sheeting".

    POLYESTER : Almost ALL Polyester flags made in the U.S. are of the two-ply, woven variety. Two-ply Polyester flags LOOK almost exactly like two-ply cotton Flags, but that's where the similarities end. Polyester flags are the heaviest Flags and are SPECIFICALLY made for use for HIGH WIND areas. Additionally, they have better color retention than cotton flags. Since polyester is a synthetic material it doesn't soak up water when the Flags get wet. Polyester is a VERY long-lasting material, BUT two-ply polyester flags are TOO heavy to fly in light winds. [ NOTE : Almost ALL imported polyester Flags are made from a totally different type of single-ply, lightweight polyester fabric that is NOT manufactured in the same way as American-made Flags. Which is why they are extremely CHEAP. ]

    POLYESTER/COTTON (Poly/Cotton) : Poly-Cotton Flags combine the "traditional" look of cotton with the strength of polyester. Poly-Cotton fabric is the lowest cost fabric used in American-made Flags and patriotic decorations. Entry-level (least expensive) poly/cotton American Flags are PRINTED on a SINGLE-ply of fabric. When first introduced the poly-cotton blend was 50/50, but there were durability problems and some mold/mildew problems with the cotton part of the blend. The poly/cotton blend fabric in use today has been changed to 70/30 to address some of the earlier problems.

    NYLON : Nylon is THE most popular fabric for Flags. Nylon is a VERY strong fabric that retains its color VERY well. It is a lustrous (shiny) fabric. Nylon doesn't absorb water like cotton does so it doesn't get all that much heavier when wet, AND it dries out MUCH faster. The nylon fabric used in Flags is a tightly woven, single-ply fabric that is fairly light-weight. A nylon flag's light weight and tight weave enables it to fly very easily in light winds (breezes). You might say that nylon provides you with the most "Flag Bang" for your "Flag Buck"!
    "Traditonal" U.S. Flags are made with individually Sewn Stripes and Embroidered (or appliqued) Stars. Some nylon U.S. Flags are fully PRINTED. And some are "hybrids" that have sewn stripes and printed stars. Fully printed nylon Flags are lighter than sewn & embroidered ones, so they will "fly" in lighter breezes. ADDITIONALY, Almost all PRINTED Nylon flags made in the USA, are made of nylon. These Flags include State, Military, Historical, International, and "Specialty" Flags.
    [ NOTE : Not all nylon Flags are created the same! Basic nylon Flags are made up of what is known as "Type 6" nylon. Type 6 nylon has been around for decades and it's OK. DuPont SolarMax™ nylon is based on the newer "Type 6.6" and its manufacturing process was patented in 1996. SolarMax nylon was invented and made SPECIFICALLY for outdoor uses (Flags, Awnings, Hotair Balloons, etc.) due to its superior strength AND Ultraviolet blocking abilities. SolarMax nylon is more expensive to manufacture, PLUS there is the additional "licensing" fee for its use. ]

    WEIGHT : The weight of a Flag will have a definitive effect on how well a Flag will "fly". The heavier the Flag, the more wind will be required for it to "fly". I weighed some brand new Annin 3'x5' U.S. Flags that I own. I used my wife's old Weight Watchers portion scale, so these weights might not be exact) :

    Annin "Sun-Glo" (SolarMax® Nylon, Fully Printed) = 8.5 ounces.
    Annin "Signature" (SolarMax® Nyl-Glo (Nylon, Sewn & Embroidered BIG Stars) = 9 ounces.
    Annin "Nyl-Glo" (SolarMax® Nylon, Sewn & Embroidered) = 10 ounces.
    Annin "Bulldog" (Cotton Bunting, Sewn & Embroidered) = 12 ounces.
    Annin "Tough-Tex" (Two-Ply Polyester, Sewn & Embroidered) = 16 ounces (one pound).

    PRICES : The prices quoted here are the MSRP for 3'x5' ANNIN Flags (with Header & Grommets) listed in the ANNIN Catalog.

    "Republic" - Printed Poly/Cotton - (#001120) = $16.90
    "Reliance" - Printed Cotton Sheeting - (#001135) = $16.90
    "Sun-Glo" - Printed SolarMax® Nylon - (#002555) = $23.50
    "Nyl-Glo" - Sewn & Embroidered SolarMax® Nylon - (#002460) = $39.90
    "Signature" - Sewn & Embroidered Nyl-Glo Nylon - (#48) = $44.50
    "Bulldog" - Sewn & Embroidered Cotton Bunting - (#001160) = $44.50
    "Tough-Tex" - Sewn & Embroidered Two-Ply Polyester - $52.90

    To download a PDF copy of ANNIN's 2013 Dealer Catalog (with Prices), click on the link below to go to the on-line page. To download a catalog, position your pointer over the desired document and RIGHT click your mouse. Then Choose "Save Target As"... then Save.

    Download catalog's from Annin Flagmakers

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    QUESTION #2 - "2- nylon - I'd like to know a little about the differences in "coated", "uncoated", "solar-max", "200 Denier", "Nyl-Glow", etc. and how these relate to the qualities above, and if one or more of these types of construction of nylon flags is significantly superior/inferior to the others."

    As I wrote earlier, I am unfamiliar with the term "coated/uncoated", so I won't add that answer here. I covered SolarMax® nylon just above.

    "Denier" is a measurement of the weight of the thread used in a fabric. A 200 Denier fabric is twice as heavy as 100 Denier, but only half the weight of a 400 denier fabric. Most SolarMax® Nylon Flags made in the USA are 200 denier.

    "Nyl-Glo", "Sun-Glo", "Signature", "Perma-Nyl", "Dura-Lite", DuraWavez", "Endura", "NylonI / NylonII", et cetera : Are "Trade Names" (or "model names") for different Flag Manufacturer's NYLON flags.


    FLAG MANUFACTURERS/MAKERS vs. FLAG RETAILERS : While there are hundreds (perhaps thousands) of Flag Retailers, Wholesalers, Distributors, etc, there are only a few USA Manufacturers. The manufacturers do NOT sell to the public. When you decide to buy your first Flag, you will be buying a certain "model" (by name), of a certain size, and a certain fabric made by a MANUFACTURER. You will be buying your first flag through a retail outlet (by whatever name they use) or an individual seller (such as you might find on Craig's List, or on eBay or some other online "auction" site). While different Flag Manufacturer's may use slightly different materials and methods, they are remarkably similar in many ways. That is probably due to the fact that most of them use the same equipment and machinery to make their products.

    AMERICAN FLAG MANUFACTURERS (Incomplete list - some current, some defunct) :

    Annin & Company (FMAA Member - Flag Manufacturer's Association of America)
    C.F. Flag (FMAA Member)
    J.C. Schultz Enterprises, Inc./FlagSource (FMAA Member)
    Valley Forge Flag (FMAA Member)
    EDER Flag Company (Oak Creek, Wisconsin)
    Allied Flag Company (Kansas City, Missouri)
    Paramount Flag (San Francisco, California)
    Emerson Flag (San Francisco, California)
    Collegeville Flag (Collegeville, Pennsylvania)
    DETTRA Flag Company - Acquired by Annin & Co. in 1998.
    AGAS
    GAMA
    National Flag Company (New Jersey - NYC/NY)


    I hope this information (based in part on my personal opinions) helps you in your quest to buy your first Flag. If there are any "problems" with the information/opinions I've given you, hopefully one or more of our more experienced members will set things "right"!



    Robin Hickman
    (Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man!)
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    ...
     
    Peter II and Bug Man like this.
  12. mike123

    mike123 New Member

    thank you for the excellent post Robin.
    That answered all my questions and then some.
    I think I'm going to get some nylon flags, either type 6 or solarmax (6.6)
    as for the coated flags, i think they were just some cheapos with some coating to give it shine that probably would probably yellow and crack in the sun.
    thanks for all your help!
    the info above probably should be put somewhere on this site where it can be easily found (like a sticky)
     
  13. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ...
    Hi, Mike!

    When it comes to flags, especially ones for your house, Nylon Flags are almost always your "best bet". The size-to-weight ratio and the tight weave pretty much assures that they will "fly" in almost any wind. Being made of nylon means they'll dry out a lot faster than other fabrics. When it comes to "personal" Flags, the choices made are, for the most part, a matter of personal preference. Since most American-made OUTDOOR Flags are considered "all-weather" (except for ones labeled "light duty" or "for occasional use only"), it's usually "OK" to fly them all the time EXCEPT for the most severe weather conditions (ice, sleet, high winds, etc.).

    When it comes to attaching your U.S. Flag to its flagpole, there are two different types of "house" Flags: Pole Sleeve (or "Pole Hem") and the more common, "Header & Grommets". The "Header" is a heavy-duty canvas strip (either cotton or polyester) with a Grommet at each end that connect to your flagpole with a pair of "clips" (one for each grommet), or perhaps with some kind of thumbscrews or other apparatus to attach the Flag to the pole (or its halyard) by way of the two grommets. The "Pole Sleeve" type of house Flags have a "pocket" the runs the the length of its "hoist" (where the header would be). The "pocket" is designed to fit over the length of the pole and be attached to it with a clip at the very top. Since almost all other Flags (including the Gadsden) are made with a Header & Grommets and NOT a "Pole Hem", I'd recommend that you go with the Header & Grommets option.

    Since you're going to be getting 3'x5' nylon flags, then the type of nylon you want is SolarMax®. It is the very best nylon Flag you can get, so accept nothing less! ALL the major U.S. manufacturers use SolarMax® for their Nylon Flags, so you shouldn't have too much trouble finding one made of it. SolarMax® is patented (1996) & trademarked and there is no other "flag" nylon like it. You don't need to look for "Type 6.6" nylon (nobody uses that name) - just look for the "SolarMax®" name. OK?

    A short list of Some U.S. Manufacturers and their "brand names" for their SolarMax® Nylon Flags:

    ANNIN - "Nyl-Glo", "Sun-Glo", and "Signature".
    VALLEY FORGE - "Perma-Nyl" and "SpectraMax".
    FLAGSOURCE - "Nylon I" and "Nylon II".
    C.F. FLAG - "Premium Grade Nylon".
    FLAGZONE - "DuraWavez".
    EDER FLAG - "Endura Nylon".
    ALLIED FLAGS (USFlagStore.com) - "Supreme Nylon".
    DETTRA (Bought out by Annin in 1998) - "Dura-Lite".

    ALSO : in regards to hanging your Flags off of your porch posts, please refer back to my advice about "Spinning" Flagpoles in my first post in this thread.

    Good Luck and "Happy Flag Shopping"!!!

    If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!


    Robin Hickman
    ("Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man"!)
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    ...
     
  14. csaanv

    csaanv Member

    Excellent presentation Robin!
     
  15. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ...
    Thanx, Mike (CSAANV) !!!

    It has been said that if you TRULY want to find out just how much you know about something (or how how well you know it), try teaching it to someone else! In fact, I've said it on more than one occasion myself!

    I've learned, known, used, and taught almost all that "Flag" information over the years. But it was always a little bit at a time, NOT all at once! It took me a quite awhile to make those entries, due, in part, to trying to find a way of saying something in such a way that a "newbie" would be able to understand it. Not knowing how to type REALLY s-l-o-w-e-d things way down too! For awhile there, I thought maybe I'd end up writing some kind of a flag "Primer", or the basic text for "Flags 101", or the start of a "Flags for Dummies" book!

    YIKES !!!


    Robin Hickman
    ("Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man")
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    ...
     
  16. usvetsnet

    usvetsnet New Member

    Make sure you buy American Flags Made In The U.S.A.. :)
     
  17. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ...
    Well, it's been a little over a month since we last heard from Mike123. I wonder how his first Flag purchase went? Did he buy two Flags, or only one? What kind of Flag(s) did he get? Has he taken any pictures of his first Flag(s) ???

    Just Wondering.....

    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    ...
     
  18. Caleb

    Caleb New Member

    The actual G-spec flags are created to the state federal features in nylon as well as 100 % cotton simply by Pit Forge. You'll find diverse suppliers thus search since many definitely jack the values in place. Desire this will help to.
     
  19. Peter II

    Peter II New Member

    Hi Robin, thank you for taking the time to post all the information above. I found this thread after looking for more information comparing the "Pole Sleeve" to the "Header & Grommets" and found it quite informative. Interestingly enough, I just received my first Nylon flag that supposedly is similar to the Solar Max flags offered by other manufacturers. It can be found on Amazon by searching "Star Spangled Flags: American Flag 2x3 Nylon Built for Outdoor Use, UV Protected"

    I have to say though that after receiving the flag, I was quite disappointed. I don't know if it's just the nylon of this flag or that of all nylon flags, but the material feels and looks "fake." Maybe that's because my first real flag was an Annin Tough-Tex 3'x5' flag. I guess I'm realizing that I like the fabric-like feel of a flag and wonder if you or others have felt the same way. I've also concluded that 2' x 3' is too small to display in front of my home (or anyone's for that matter) but that 3' x 5' seems a bit too big (unless the house is quite large). I know that's the standard size, but it seems like 2.5' x 4' strikes a good balance. What are your thoughts on this?

    Finally, I'm really torn on whether to go with the Pole Sleeve style or the Header & Grommets. I know the Pole Sleeve is more common for these smaller sizes but that isn't enough to convince me to go that route. Ultimately, for as funny as it sounds, I'm curious as to what your opinion is on which of the two styles is a more classic style. Thanks for any input on that.

    Oh and one more thing, unless there is a nylon flag that has the look and feel of cotton, what in your opinion would be the ideal 2.5' x 4' flag (or from which manufacturer)?

    BTW, happy 4th of July 2017.

    Best,

    Peter
     
  20. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .....
    Greetings, Peter II, and welcome to the USA-FLAG-SITE Forums!

    I'm not quite sure where to begin. Since you've read my previous replies in this thread, I'd like to think that you would have an understanding of some of the basics regarding the different fabrics used in manufacturing Flags here in the United States. I'll try not to go back over any of that again in this reply, but who knows?

    First off, Flags and their size, fabric, construction, and how they are flown/displayed, are pretty much decided by their owner's own personal preferences. No matter what my opinion is, or anybody else's, it's YOUR home, YOUR flagpole, and YOUR Flag, so... it's YOUR personal preferences and YOUR decision. If "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", then the Flag YOU choose to fly will probably be the one YOU find most "beautiful".

    You didn't say how long your house (flag) pole is. House poles are usually between 5' and 7', with the majority being about 6' in length. Personally, I use 7' "spinning" flagpoles at my house. I use "spinning" poles because the top part of the poles (where the Flag is attached) spin freely which cuts down on the Flags getting all wrapped up (furling) on the poles. If you've ever owned, or seen, Flags on static (unmoving) poles, then you'll probably know how aggravating (and unsightly) having a Flag wrapped around its pole can be! I normally fly 3'x5' Flags on my 7' spinning poles, and they look perfectly OK to me. When there is an occasion to fly my Flags at Half-Staff, the 3'x5' Flags are too "big" to "Half-Staff, so I replace the 3'x5' Flags with smaller 2'x3' Flags that are connected to the bottom edge of the upper, spinning, part of the poles. The don't really fly in the "true" Half-Staff position, but they are far enough down their poles to show my honorable intentions.

    "Pole Sleeve" (PS) or "Header & Grommets" (H&G)?

    I always exclusively use Flags that are made with Header & Grommets. Pole Sleeve Flags are usually made for INDOOR flagpoles, or PARADE flagpoles, OR entry-level 5' or 6' HOUSE flagpoles. The Indoor and Parade "PS" Flags are usually "high-end" quality Flags, whereas the "PS" Flags made for house flagpoles are usually "low-end", light-weight Flags meant for light-duty. Whether they are "sewn & embroidered" or "printed", the "light-duty" Flags are the ones with only TWO (2) lines of hem-stitching across their "fly ends". Higher end, heavier-duty Flags always have four (4) or more lines of "lock" stitching across their fly ends. Why? Because it's the fly end of the Flag that really takes a beating flying out there in the wind!

    Although some 2½'x4' American Flags are made with H&G, almost ALL of the ones I've seen and/or handled were of the PS variety. The VAST majority of house-sized Flags (2'x3', 2½'x4', 3'x5', and 4'x6') are made with a Header & Grommets. The exception might be the entry-level, light-duty 2½'x4' Flags.

    [ NOTE : Some U.S. Flag Makers (Annin comes to mind) mark their 2½'x4' Flags as "BANNERS", or "Banner-Style". Banners are usually designed to hang down vertically from a horizontal pole. In the case of a "U.S.A" (Flag) Banner, the Stars might be aligned so that their single points are pointing at the pole hem, instead of at the "top" of the Flag like we're all used to seeing. Even if that's the case, I don't see it as too much of a "problem" since your Flag/Banner will be on your flagpole where nobody will notice the different star alignment (unless you point it out to them!). ]

    NYLON Flag that Looks/Feels like COTTON?

    I have never seen, nor heard of, a nylon Flag that looks and/or feels like it's made of cotton. That doesn't mean that they don't exist; It only means that I have never seen or heard of one that does.

    Unless you live in HIGH WIND or EXTREME WEATHER location, a NYLON Flag will be your best bet for your house. If you DO live in a high wind and/or extreme weather location, then go with the 2-ply, spun polyester Flag - It will last MUCH longer! If you live in a low/no wind area where it never rains, and your house flagpole is in the shade all day, then a cotton flag might be in order. Just Sayin' . . . .

    Here we are half-way between FLAG Day and INDEPENDENCE Day on the calendar! Assuming that you live in the USA..... If you drive/walk/bike around your neighborhood, you'll probably see more houses/homes flying merican Flags RIGHT NOW than at any other time of year. While a few of the houses will have vertical, ground-based flagpoles (15', 20', 25', or even 30' tall), most will have their Flags flying from a 5', 6', or 7' "house pole". I'm betting that most of those house poles will be six feet long. I'm also betting that most of the Flags will be 3'x5' in size, with the 2½'x4' size in second place. So, go ahead and take the time to drive/walk/bike around your neighborhood and see what kind of brackets and poles that your neighbors have attached to their houses and porches, and what Flags they are flying.

    Flag Manufacturer? You can check out the list of Flag Manufactures in the USA that I posted in an earlier reply. The two largest are ANNIN & Co. and Valley Forge. Since I don't know where you live or even what sized town/city you live in, I don't know if there are any Flag Retail stores near you. I am, however, pretty sure that you live relatively near a Wal*Mart Store. As far as I know, ALL Wal*Marts carry ANNIN brand Flags, ESPECIALLY at this time of year. If you live near a Wal*Mart, go see what kind of selection they have. Who knows? You just might find the PERFECT Flag!

    Well, I hope I've answered all of your questions. If I have then, fine. If I haven't, or you come up with a couple more, then feel free to ask me, or anyone else who's a member here.

    BTW : If you run across any reply in any of the threads here in any of our Forums that you find to be particularly helpful, feel free to click on its "LIKE" button in the lower right-hand corner of the entry!

    THANX !!!

    Robin Hickman
    "Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man"
    Eugene, Oregon, USA.
    .....
     

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