Multiple flag poles

Discussion in 'US Flag Display' started by 2yrtom, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. 2yrtom

    2yrtom New Member


    Someone set up a series of 5 flagpoles, with the US flag on the center and highest flagpole. The poles need to be re-done and I was asked if there was a proper spacing (distance-wise) that should be observed between each flagpole. Thanks.
     
  2. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    ...
    Hello, 2yrTom !!! :D

    Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums !!! :D


    Althought multiple flagpole spacing isn't a "hot topic" around here, it has come up from time to time. The last times it came up were July of last year (2010) and February of this year, 2011.

    Here's a link to an entire thread dedicated to the subject of multiple flagpole spacing. Read the whole thing before making up your mind about what might be the "right" or "best" way. One of the things we did NOT discuss in that thread was the possibility of the lack of space or room to spread out the flagpoles.

    http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/flag-spacing-7253.html

    If you have any additional comments or questions, please post them in THIS thread. That way everybody will be able to follow the entire "conversation"!

    Thank you for bringing your Flag-related question to our forums! :D

    Good Luck !!! :D


    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
    ...
     
  3. flagnazi

    flagnazi Member

    Robin: Went back to the reference you made and included on the forum. Great discussion by you and SSGCARP. I enjoyed it and thought it was funny. I now have another piece of "opinionated" trivia. I love it when someone thinks logically. So many people ask me questions and my favorite answer is "the Flag Code is not LAW, it is a guide, as long as you are doing your best to be respectful to the flag, that is what counts". Commonsense, oh my, it still exists, in some. Mike Doyle, Lava Hot Springs, ID
     
  4. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Mike ! :D


    QUOTE : "So many people ask me questions and my favorite answer is "the Flag Code is not LAW, it is a guide, as long as you are doing your best to be respectful to the flag, that is what counts"."


    Pardon me if I'm wrong..... BUT..... Since the U.S. Code IS the "Law of the Land", AND the "Flag Code" is part of the U.S. Code, THEN..... shouldn't the "Flag Code" be considered "The Law" ??? :eek:


    :D


    Of course, it's important to point out that the "Flag Code" has NO "enforcement" provisions, and almost every provision in the "Flag Code" is more like a "suggestion" because the word, "should" appears in almost ALL of them !!! :D



    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
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  5. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

    Robin,
    I follow that logic, but apparently the US Supreme Court does not concur. Every flag desecration case that has come before the Court has been lost by those trying to preserve the sacred nature of the flag itself, and won by those trying to preserve the sacred nature of what the flag stands for.

    Nick A
    Columbia Maryland
     
  6. flagnazi

    flagnazi Member

    Robin: I understand your point, but to me law is enforced and the Flag Code is not. Meaning no one can be prosecuted for not following it. I have to agree with Nick. But then again, we all know that there are "laws" in this country that are not enforced. I will have to do more research on this. It seems that if it was law then prosecuting those who desecrate the flag would not be an issue and Vets organizations would not be trying to get a law passed stating such. Just my opinion. Thanks for responding. This is what I like about this site, good open discussion about issues with sincere attempts to come to resolution. Thanks, Robin and Nick.
    Mike Doyle, Lava Hot Springs, ID 83246
     
  7. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm..... So, I guess since the "10 Commandments" have NO enforcement provisions and are NOT enforced, then they are actually closer to being the "10 SUGGESTIONS" rather than the "10 Commandments" ???

    :D :D :D :D

    ...
     
  8. flagnazi

    flagnazi Member

    Robin: You make me smile.:) I did look up the Flag Code and you are correct that it IS law but not enforcible and meant only as a guide line for the civilian population. This was under the Congressional Record and written by an atty explaining its function. Mike Doyle
     
  9. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

    I dunno. :confused:

    Eternal Damnation sounds like pretty strict enforcement to me. :(

    I bet people would pay more attention to the Ten Commandments if enforcement was more IMMEDIATE!!! :eek:

    Howevever, Robin's insinuation is correct. Since there are no enforcement provisions for the tenants of the US Flag Code, they are just suggestions.

    Nick A
    Columbia Maryland
     
  10. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    Re: Multiple flag poles -- FLAG CODE "Guidelines"

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    Hi, Mike ! :D
    Hi, Nick ! :D

    While recognizing that the "United States Code, Title 4, Chapter 1 - The Flag" (AKA: "The Flag Code"), is indeed part of the "law of the land", we should also understand that it is written as a set of codified "guidelines" for civilian use.

    §5. Display and use of flag by civilians; codification of rules and customs; definition

    The following codification of existing rules and customs pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of America be, and it is hereby, established for the use of such civilians or civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the Government of the United States. The flag of the United States for the purpose of this chapter shall be defined according to title 4, United States Code, Chapter 1, Section 1 and Section 2 and Executive Order 10834 issued pursuant thereto.


    Through the reading of the "Flag Code", we can clearly see that there are NO enforcement provisions included; and that other than Section 3 (§3. Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag), that pertains only to the District of Columbia, there are no penalties listed for "breaking the law" as it pertains to the Flag Code.

    The idea that the Flag Code is a set of codified guidelines can best be demonstrated by the almost universal use of the directive words "should" and/or "should not" in almost every single Section and Sub-Section. "Should" and/or "should not", and NOT "must and/or "must not", NOR "shall" and/or "shall not".

    Hopefully, someday, the "Flag Code" will be fully updated and expanded to clear up some of the "gray areas" and ambiguities, delineate some of the "fuzzy areas", add some heretofore un-mentioned or un-thought of "suggestions" and "guidelines", et cetera..... Sure would be nice, eh ???



    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
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  11. flagnazi

    flagnazi Member

    Robin: That is what I had read and was alluding to but did not quote as you did. Agree with you. Agree with Nick. I think we all see the frustration in something that is law and yet not concrete. Mike Doyle, Lava Hot Springs, ID
     
  12. flagnazi

    flagnazi Member

    Robin and Nick: Agree with both of you. Much could, "should" be done but in order to not make that a suggestion in itself, I guess we should use the words "must", "will", "punishable by". At least then there would be natural consequences more immediate than "eternal damnation". I love this. Thanks guys. I salute your thoughtfulness.
     
  13. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

    That would indeed clarify the issue, but is that what we really want? While I love and respect our national flag, and all those that have served under its colors, do we really honor the flag by placing such restrictions on its use?

    I have "come around" on this issue of flag desecration. While I deplore the misuse of the Flag of the United States, I believe it is honored more when people VOLUNTARILY treat it with respect, than when respect is forced.

    People have, indeed, died for our flag, but the flag is not just the flag itself. It is also the freedoms we cherish, including the freedom to be stupid and to disrespect the very flag that symbolizes our right to express ourselves in a free society.

    Nick A
    Columbia Maryland
     
  14. flagnazi

    flagnazi Member

    NAVA 1974: I agree that the flag is a representation of our country, its values and freedoms that we cherish. I understand that there will be those that will not agree with us and see it only as a piece of cloth. I have read, heard that we are the only country that puts such value on our flag.
    I believe it was Woodrow Wilson that said, "the flag has no meaning other that what we give it, from generation to generation". There is a minority of people that desecrate out flag but what if that number should increase to where it was a majority? I believe there is a saying on a moment at Ranger School that says "if there isn't those who are willing to protect our freedoms there will certainly be those who will be willing to take them away". At what point do we say that the respect of the flag has diminished enough that it no longer has value nor stands for what we consider to be freedoms and then someone comes in to say this is what your freedoms will be?
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I do appreciate the sharing of thoughtful considerations.
    Mike D.
    Lava Hot Springs, ID
     

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