Remove Cover (Hat) or Salute?

Discussion in 'Other US Flag Etiquette' started by Rocco42, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. Rocco42

    Rocco42 New Member

    I have been looking for the answer to this question for several years. Today, I was lucky enough to find this web page.

    The following has been my understanding of Proper Protocol in regard to when one is to either "Salute" the Flag or remove their "Hat":

    From my Military expeirience, I recall that Military Personel, in Uniform, do not remove their cover, (Hat) and "salute" the flag when called for. When in Civilian Clothing, Military Personel are to remove their Hat and place it against their left shoulder with their right hand which should then rest over their heart, unless they are "Under Arms" (in possession of a weapon)in which case they would Salute). I may be wrong on this point and would not take offense at being corrected.

    I cannot locate any information that addresses the situation whereby a Civialian, in Civialian Clothing, who is "Under Arms" (carring a concealed Weapon), should remove his hat or Salute. This would apply to Police Officers and others in Security Positions. I would appreciate any input or a source for the appropriate information.

    Thank you very much and as a Disabled American Veteran... "God Bless America"!!!
    Rocco in New Jersey...
     
  2. boza127

    boza127 New Member

    In civilian garb: (Males) remove their hat, place it over their heart. Females wearing hats are allowed to keep their hats on because a hat is considered part of the woman's attire/dress....placing your hand over your heart is the standard method of respect for the flag as it is hoisted/lowered/passes in review.

    Scouts keep their caps on and salute.

    I have NEVER seen military personnel remove their covers and salute --
     
  3. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Here is what the flag code says about this:

    " . . . all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart."

    This part of the code was amended earlier this year to allow military personnel and veterans who are not in uniform to render the military salute.

    Rocco42 wrote: "unless they are "Under Arms" (in possession of a weapon)in which case they would Salute). . . I cannot locate any information that addresses the situation whereby a Civialian, in Civialian Clothing, who is "Under Arms" (carring a concealed Weapon), should remove his hat or Salute. "

    To my knowledge, there is nothing in the flag code or in military regulations that says any such thing. The reference to "under arms" might refer to the fact that troops standing or marching in formation do not salute -- the officer in charge of the formation salutes on behalf of the entire unit. This is true whether or not the troops are actually carrying weapons.

    Peter Ansoff
     
  4. Rocco42

    Rocco42 New Member

    Peter, thank you very much for your very informative response to my inquirery The basis for my question is that I am a Disabled Veteran and also a Retired Police Officer. Recent federal legislation now allows retired Police Officers to carry a concealed handgun (which due to their retirement, would logically be while wearing civilian clothing rather than a uniform).

    It has been my understanding that when uniformed Military and/or Police Personell were wearing a sidearm (or holding a weapon), that the proper action when paying respects to the flag was to salute the flag.

    During the playing of the National Anthem or other such occassions, (whereby I am in civilian clothes, including a hat, and in possession of a concealed handgun) I have always been somewhat confused as to wheather I should remove my hat and place my right hand over my heart or salute the flag.

    Your respnse states "a veteran" may keep his hat on and salute. For me personally, this answers my question as I am a veteran. The question seems to remain unanswered (or not provided for) in regard to other "Retired" Police Officers who may be carrying a weapon and what proper Flag Ettiquette should be to used when it is called for.

    I would like to locate the code you refer to that "has been revised this year" and addresses part of my question. Thank you again.
    Rocco 42
     
  5. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    During the playing of the National Anthem or other such occassions, (whereby I am in civilian clothes, including a hat, and in possession of a concealed handgun) I have always been somewhat confused as to wheather I should remove my hat and place my right hand over my heart or salute the flag.

    Again, to my knowledge there is nothing in the "flag code," or in any military regulation, that makes an exception for someone carrying a firearm, concealed or not. Individual organizations are free to create their own rules, but of course such rules would apply only to their members.

    I would like to locate the code you refer to that "has been revised this year" and addresses part of my question.

    Check out my 8/29/08 post in an earlier thread in the "Other US Flag Etiquette" section of this form -- the thread is called "Veterans' Salute Protocols." That post has a detailed discussion of the US code language and the recent amendments. This should provide the information you need -- if not, we'll try again!

    Best,

    Peter Ansoff
     
  6. waynep

    waynep New Member

    Do the above protocols apply when not in attendance where the anthem is played? If watching or listening to the national anthem while in a private business or home should one stand at attention and salute?
     
  7. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Active Member

    .
    Hello, WayneP ! :D

    Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums ! :D


    QUOTE : "If watching or listening to the national anthem while in a private business or home should one stand at attention and salute?"


    Assuming you mean watching on TV or listening to the radio, these days you can if you want to. BUT..... you don't HAVE to.

    My advice is based on my reasoning that if you were in the military you were sitting in the barracks watching TV, you wouldn't salute the image of a superior officer appearing on TV, would you?

    No.

    If you were watching the nightly news and they showed a story about the local Veterans' Day parade and the color guard went marching by, would you jump to your feet and salute?

    Probably not.

    What if you were watching a World Series game on TV and at the beginning they showed the Color Guard marching onto the field to "Present The Colors" and the National Anthem started playing. Would you Stand & Salute?

    Maybe you would and maybe you wouldn't. :cool:

    In all three scenarios, you could go ahead and stand and salute if you wanted to, BUT..... you wouldn't HAVE to.

    At least in this day and age that's true. BUT... Not so long ago... Back during World War Two it was a little different, at least in the movie theaters! At the beginning of every show, a short little film would be played showing the American Flag waving and the Star-Spangled Banner would be played! EVERYBODY would stand, salute, and sing along! Don't know the words? No problem! The lyrics would be right there on the screen and all you had to do was just "Follow The Bouncing Ball"!!!

    Anyway, that's just MY opinion. I'm sure there are others so keep checking back!


    Thank You for bringing your Flag-related question to our Forums !!!


    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
    .
     
  8. KathrynBassett

    KathrynBassett New Member

    I've been reading through this and other threads, and maybe there is something more current than what I have found. My husband is a vet (VietNam). We were someplace this weekend when we were saying the Pledge of Allegiance. He had a ball cap on. He saluted. Someone said he was supposed to take his hat off. He said no, that as a vet, he didn't have to, that he could leave his hat on, and salute. Is he correct? Or was this a misunderstanding of the part of the change that says that as a vet he could salute? Can he salute and still leave his hat on? Or does he have to take his hat off?

     
  9. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Active Member

    ...
    The entry that Peter referred to is at the other end of the following link:

    http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/veterans-salute-protocols-3026.html

    To this very day I STILL take daily walks and I STILL render a "military" salute to every American Flag that I pass by!!! :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:



    Robin Hickman
    ("Your Friendly Neighborhood Flag Man")
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
    ...
     
  10. KathrynBassett

    KathrynBassett New Member

    He will keep doing what he's been doing. What we need is code to quote saying he can leave his hat on while reciting the Pledge - so we can quote it to the person who says he has to take it off.
     
  11. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Hi, Kathryn,

    The relevant language is in 4 USC 1 Chapter 4:

    The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.â€￾, should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces not in uniform and veterans may render the military salute in the manner provided for persons in uniform.

    The last sentence was just recently added by the National Defense Authorization Act of 2014, which finally brought all three of the Flag Code's saluting provisions into line. As I noted in an earlier post, the part about members of the Armed Forces conflicts with military regulations and directives issued by the Navy and the Marine Corps. There's no issue for veterans, however.

    Peter Ansoff
     
  12. NAVA1974

    NAVA1974 Active Member

    The part of the regulation that says "Persons in uniform should remain silent..." struck me as odd. Why not let them recite the Pledge?? Well, of course, the uniform is a sign that they have already taken a sworn oath to "...support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic...[and] bear true faith and allegiance to the same...] so they never have to repeat that vow again. (Note that the Pledge of Allegiance is equally an affirmation that the speaker will support and defend the United States, not just the flag.)

    Nick
    Columbia, Maryland
     

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