Sept 11, sunset?

Discussion in 'Half Mast / Half Staff' started by lovetheflag, Sep 10, 2009.

  1. lovetheflag

    lovetheflag New Member

    Hi, I am a scout leader and we are raising the flag tomorrow at our local high school football game. From what I have read, the flag should be at half staff until sunset. Can anyone tell me what "sunset" is considered?! :confused: The local weather page says that sunset is at 7:46 that day. We will be raising the flag at approx. 7:15. Any suggestions? I am available at the game to raise the flag at 7:46 if necessary! Please help!:eek: Thanks!:)
     
  2. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Hello, welcome to the forum!

    The normal etiquette is to raise the flag in the morning and lower it at sunset. This doesn't change when the flag is half-staffed. When sunset (7:46 PM in your case) arrives, you should raise the flag from half-staff to the top of the pole for an instant, and then lower it and put it away. As always, you can leave it flying after sunset if it is illuminated.

    Best regards,

    Peter Ansoff
     
  3. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .
    Hello, LoveTheFlag ! :D

    Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums !


    My answer (personal opinion or advice) differs from Peter's. I'm not trying to confuse you. I'm just trying to address the issue at hand.

    IF I understand correctly, you and your Scout Troop will be conducting the Flag raising ceremony (at 7:15 PM) prior to the start of an evening High School football game, and that after you have raised the Flag, it will remain flying during the entire course of the game (assuming that it is properly illuminated), and then be lowered after the game has ended.

    IF this were any other "normal" Friday night High School football game, you would conduct the "normal" Flag raising ceremony prior to the start of the game, let the Flag fly during the entire course of the game, and then lower it after the game has ended.

    But tomorrow, September 11th, isn't a "normal" Friday night, is it?


    My advice differs from Peter's in that I'm recommending that when it comes time for your Scout Troop's Flag raising ceremony, that they raise the Flag briskly to the peak (top) of the pole and the lower it ceremoniously to the Half-Staff position (which is the usual way to position the Flag at Half-staff). Let the Flag fly at Half-Staff (as it "normally" would at full staff) throughout the game. Then after the end of the game, raise the Flag back up to the peak of the flagpole and lower it ceremoniuosly, fold it up, and put it away.

    I realize that the "normal" half-staff procedure is to have the Flag flying at half-staff throughout the day until sundown/sunset. But since this SPECIFIC flying of the Flag is for a night-time (as in after sunset) sporting event, let the Flag fly at half-staff during the entire game, just as you would "normally" do at full staff. Otherwise, you'd have to bring the game to a full stop just to re-position the Flag on the flagpole or to remove it from the pole entirely.


    I hope all of the that made some kind of sense to you. I'm as little distracted because I've been kind of busy getting ready for some special flag flying for Patriot Day myself.

    However you choose to do it and however well it goes, Good Luck !


    Thank You for bringing your Flag-related question to our Forums !


    Robin Hickman
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  4. lovetheflag

    lovetheflag New Member

    Thank you both for your answers! Yes, it all makes sense! I think the flag will have to remain at half staff throughout the game. The flag itself will not be lit, but the stadium is like daylight. (Like most stadiums.) It just seems like it would confuse many people if we were to raise it back to the top during the game. (AS you say, it is a 'specific' flying of the flag) BUT, I will be making sure that my cub scouts and others know the protocol of "from sunrise to sunset" for many of the holidays.

    Thanks again. I love the site, and it is wonderful to see so many who DO cherish and respect our wonderful flag, the symbol of so much!
    Jenni D, Lexington Ohio :)
     
  5. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    My answer (personal opinion or advice) differs from Peter's.

    Actually, Robin's advice looks about the same as mine -- except longer (-;

    As he mentioned, the correct procedure when raising the flag is to hoist it to the top of the pole for an instant and then lower it to half-staff.

    Peter A.
     
  6. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    .

    QUOTE : "Actually, Robin's advice looks about the same as mine -- except longer (-;"

    No, Peter. I don't think so. If it was "about the same" then I would not ordinarily have written it.

    The way I "read" yours was that you were suggesting that the scouts raise the Flag to half-staff as scheduled at 7:15 PM, then raise the Flag back up to the top, then lower it and put it away.

    QUOTE : "When sunset (7:46 PM in your case) arrives, you should raise the flag from half-staff to the top of the pole for an instant, and then lower it and put it away."

    The "head-scratcher" for me in your advice was in your last sentence.

    QUOTE : "As always, you can leave it flying after sunset if it is illuminated."

    I couldn't tell if you were talking about leaving the Flag to fly at HALF-staff or FULL-staff.

    So I decided to jump in and donate my two cents worth.

    Uh, oh..... Time's a-flying! I put out over 100 American Flags at half-staff early this morning and now I have to go pick them all up again in about an hour! The "problem" is... I haven't had my NAP yet !!! :eek:

    Here's hoping that we all have a VERY quiet Patriot Day today..... :cool:


    Robin Hickman
    .
     
  7. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Hi, Robin!

    The way I "read" yours was that you were suggesting that the scouts raise the Flag to half-staff as scheduled at 7:15 PM, then raise the Flag back up to the top, then lower it and put it away.

    Where did I say that???

    QUOTE : "When sunset (7:46 PM in your case) arrives, you should raise the flag from half-staff to the top of the pole for an instant, and then lower it and put it away."

    Right -- that's the normal procedure for lowering the flag when it's being flown at half-staff.

    The "head-scratcher" for me in your advice was in your last sentence.
    QUOTE : "As always, you can leave it flying after sunset if it is illuminated."
    I couldn't tell if you were talking about leaving the Flag to fly at HALF-staff or FULL-staff.

    I'm not sure why this was a "head scratcher." If the flag is flying at half-staff, and you leave it flying after sunset, then it is still at half-staff.

    Just so that there is no confusion, here are the rules of etiquette that are involved here:

    1. The flag is normally flown during daylight hours. It can be flown after sunset if it is illuminated.

    2. When the flag is flown at half-staff, rule #1 still applies.

    3. When raising the flag on a day when it is to be flown at half-staff, it is raised to the top of the pole for an instant, then lowered to the half-staff posistion.

    4. When lowering the flag from half-staff, it is raised to the top of the pole for an instant, then lowered and put away.

    I hope that clears things up. Sorry for any confusion!

    Peter A.
     

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