wanted 10 x 15 foot Betsy Ross Flag

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by starsong94, May 10, 2009.

  1. starsong94

    starsong94 New Member

    Hello from Minnesota!

    I'm in need of a 10x15' Betsy Ross 13 star in a circle nylon american flag for display on the 4th of July on my 40' steel flag pole. I've checked with a couple of flag manufacturers but they want around $850. That's too much for a flag which will only be displayed for one day a year. Anyone with one for sale at a reasonable price? Any help is greatly appreciated.
    Keep it flying high and proud!
    Tj
     
  2. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    Hello, StarSong94 from Minnesota !

    Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site forums !


    Flying a 10'x15' Betsy Ross Flag from a 40' flagpole? It seems like you are planning on making a BIG Patriotic STATEMENT !!!

    I say that because the usual "suggested" flag sizes for a 40' pole are 6'x10' to 8'x12'. Assuming that you normally fly a "smaller" Flag, them putting up an "over-sized" 10'x15' Betsy Ross Flag will most definitely make a statement!

    [ NOTE : The recommended "proportions" of flags to flagpoles usually states that the "Fly" length of the Flag should be between 1/4 to 1/3 the height of the flagpole. ]

    The one major thing I would be worried about is the type, construction, and strength of your 40' steel flagpole, AND its individual components. That BIG of a flag might be too much for your flagpole to "handle" IF it is not sturdy enough.

    Think about it : A flag, any sized flag, is very similar to a "sail" on a sailboat, right? Whenever the wind fills the sail on a sailboat it places a "force" or "stress" on the mast or spar it's attached to. The force of the wind filling the sail is what moves the sailboat. It's the same with flags and flagpoles, except the flagpoles don't go anywhere.

    With sails & masts, the faster the wind, the greater the stress. The greater the area of the sail, the greater the stress. The heavier the sail, the greater the stress. It's the SAME with Flags!

    You can do the math to see what I mean.

    A 6'x10' Flag is 60 Square Feet.

    An 8'x12' Flag is 96 Square Feet. (1 & 1/2 times the area and weight of the 6'x10' Flag.)

    A 10'x15' Flag is 150 Square Feet. (2 & 1/2 times the area & weight of the 6'x10' Flag, and 1 & 1/2 times the area & weight of the 8'x12' Flag.)


    IF you "normally" fly a 10'x15' American Flag from your flagpole, then there's no difference. On the other hand, if you normally fly a smaller flag then flying the 10'x15' Flag is going to make a HUGE difference!

    SOME of the "stress points" of your flagpole might be :

    1. The pole itself (Especially if it's a "sectional" pole).
    2. The pole's attachment to the base.
    3. The base's size, construction, and anchoring.
    4. The "truck" and its assembly. (The truck is the pulley system at the top of the pole, and it is what the halyard, or rope, that your Flag is attached to, is looped through.)
    5. The halyard itself.
    6. The halyard's own connectors' attachments to the halyard.
    7. The Flag-to-halyard connectors.


    A simple failure of one of the components could produce the very embarrassing situation where your brand new Flag ends up on the ground where everybody can see it.

    The catastrophic failure of the pole or base could cause property damage or bodily injury (or worse), or both.

    As I wrote earlier, if you normally fly a 10'x15' Flag from your pole then there should be no problem as your pole has already proved that it can handle the "load". If you normally fly a smaller Flag from your pole, you might want to double-check the "specs" of your pole, OR... go with a smaller Betsy Ross Flag!


    A couple of lighter and brighter notes :

    Smaller Flags cost less !

    Smaller Flags are easier to find & shop for!

    A much bigger Flag takes MUCH more wind to "fly". If there isn't enough wind to get the bigger Flag to "fly", then it will just hang limp (hugging the flagpole) and no one will ever know that it is a "Betsy Ross" Flag !


    On a personal note : I don't care what ANYBODY says, $850 is WAY, WAY too much for a 10'x15' Betsy Ross Flag !!! ESPECIALLY a NYLON one !!!

    But, I suppose a Betsy Ross Flag of THAT size is not your average, ordinary, "off-the-shelf" kind of Flag and would have to be "special ordered", so I suppose that would make it all the more expensive!


    However it comes out, GOOD LUCK !!!

    Robin Hickman

    PS. For What It's Worth (FWIW) : I'd go with a smaller "Betsy Ross" Flag. They're easier to find, they cost less, they "fly" much better, and they'll put less "stress" on your flagpole! A "printed" Flag will weigh less than a "embroidered & sewn" one. The circle of stars will come in two basic varieties: All 13 stars pointed "up", and all 13 stars pointed outward from the middle (preferred by me). Annin makes a nice 5'x8' one that you should be able to get for around a $100, or less (I think that's the largest one they make). Or you could check out Valley Forge Flag Co, or CF Flag.
     
  3. starsong94

    starsong94 New Member

    Hello Robin,

    Your points on "proper flag size" is really old hat. But thank you anyway.

    What I do have is a forty foot carbon steel tapered flagpole anchored with four three foot long anchor bolts in a concrete (5,000 lbs/sqf) slab 30" square by five feet deep. I bought this new five years ago for $745. It came primered and I coated it with four coats of bright white Rustoleum Industrial paint. I have flown 8x12, 8'11"x17, 12x18, and settled on the 10x15 for overall good looks.
    As soon as I find a new Nylon 10x19 at a reasonable price it will fly proudly.
    I like the long profile G-Spec flags. This pole is rated to fly a 240 square foot flag in a 100 mph wind. That even beats many cheaper commercial poles in this size category. It's a darn good pole. It is ratained to the pole with two beaded retainers, one on the bottom hook and one on the middle grommet.
    It's an impressive set-up and admired in the small town which I live. I'm very proud of it and more for which it stands.
    I do hope someone can help with the 10x15 Betsy Ross request as July 4th is fast approaching.
    Sincerely,
    Tj

    P.S. this is my second response as the first didn't go through as of 5 hours ago--if the first response went through and I haven't seen it yet my apologies for this duplication. I'm not new to news groups. I own a yahoo group which I've been operating for 9 years so I understand these things can happen.
     
  4. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Greetings, starsong,

    this is my second response as the first didn't go through as of 5 hours ago--if the first response went through and I haven't seen it yet

    I thought that your first try might have been snagged by the moderation function for some reason, but it wasn't. I'm not sure why it didn't come through. Sorry for the hassle -- let me or american_flag_uk know if you have any more problems.

    Anyway, welcome to the forum!

    Peter Ansoff
    Forum Admin
     
  5. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

    Hello, Again, StarSong94 (TJ) !


    WOW !!!

    That sounds like you have one really GREAT flagpole !!! :D

    In regards to finding a 10'x15' or 10'x19' U.S. Flag that will fit in your budget:

    (I don't know if it's against the forum "rules" to recommend a website or company that sells American Flags or not.)

    I've been actively shopping for American Flags (Albeit 3'x5' ones) for the past 4-5 years. I've looked at dozens of different Flag-related websites and hundreds of their webpages. I have personally bought American Flags from about 30 or so different companies and/or people, including on eBay.

    While there are a small number of companies that I would feel comfortable in recommending, in this case I'll keep it at only two. The first one is a "wholesale" retailer, and the other is a manufacturer. I have had dealings with BOTH of these companies and feel very comfortable in recommending them. :D

    The first one is CVS Wholesale Flags. They are located in Marion, Indiana.

    MAIN Page : http://www.cvsflags.com/
    OUTDOOR U.S. Flags : http://www.cvsflags.com/outdoor.cfm

    You'll find that they have 10'x15' and 10'x19' (including G-Spec) U.S. Flags (American Made) for LESS than $200. [ EDIT : Some of the larger G-Spec Flags are over $300. Sorry for the confusion! ]

    You can also ask them about "special ordering" or obtaining a 10'x15' (or 10'x19') Betsy Ross Flag. If they can't do it, maybe they know someone who can.


    The second one is a Flag Manufacturer : CF Flag of Huntsville, Alabama. They have been manufacturing flags for over 100 years, and they are a veteran-owned business. I'm including them primarily because I believe that the ONLY way you'll find a 10'x15' Betsy Ross Flag is by "special ordering" one.

    MAIN Page : http://cfflag.com/

    CF Flag, like most of the major flagmakers in the U.S. does NOT usually deal directly with the public. however, I believe that when it comes to "special orders", they will make exceptions.


    Starsong, I've spent the better part of six hours going through all of my Flag-related bookmarks and "Googling" various search terms in regards to your quest for a 10'x15' Betsy Ross Flag. I have been unable to find any of that size for sale anywhere. Nor have I been able to find anybody that makes them as a part of their "regular" product line. All of which leads me to the conclusion that probably the only way you're going to be able to get one is to "special order" it. I'm going to guess you already know that, as you've said that you've already talked to a couple of companies and the price was approximately $850.


    And Finally : An apology, a thank you, and an explanation.

    Starsong, I APOLOGIZE for giving you "old hat" answers in my first reply. THANK YOU for not jumping all over my case for giving you those "old hat" answers. The only explanation that I can offer is that most of the people who come to this website are somewhat inexperienced when it comes to Flag-related issues. I'm afraid that my reply was based on my over-active imagination "seeing" some well-meaning patriot putting a too-large Flag on a too-weak flagpole, and having disastrous results. Again, I apologize; and, again, thank you for not getting on my case about it !!! :eek:

    Robin Hickman
    Eugene, Oregon USA
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2009
  6. starsong94

    starsong94 New Member

    Robin,
    Thank You for the info on flag manufacturers and retailers. I'll check them out.
    Take care,
    Tj
     
  7. mattsaccount

    mattsaccount Member

    Huh, I can see why you're frustrated. I just checked five different online vendors and not one had such a large size. It sounds like you've already contacted a couple about a special order, though. I'm not sure what else I can suggest. Look harder? :) Just contact as many different vendors as possible. A typical 50-star flag that size is much less than $800, so there's no apparent technical reason that the price should be so high--presumably it's simply because it would have to be a special order.

    Best of luck!
     
  8. Robin Hickman

    Robin Hickman Well-Known Member

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