Why does the American flag have a gold fringe?

Discussion in 'US Flag Specs and Design' started by EmailPoster, Jun 6, 2006.

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  1. Rubbish.

    go do some proper research
     
  2. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Robert what you say isinteresting, I ask you to watch the news when bush is at the u.n. look at the flags of the in the back ground they dont have a gold trim , gold tassel ,or eagle on top.that is the flag of our contract with the fed govt. the U.S govt. represents us to the world ,that flag tells the world of our contract for the U.S to be our representative to the world .Take from this what you will.
    e

    I take from it that a fringe on a flag is an optional decoration -- some flags have them and some don't. The fringe has no symbolic meaning whatsoever.

    And BTW, my name is not "Robert."

    Peter Ansoff
     
  3. bronny49

    bronny49 New Member

    Peter:

    I think the Executive Order re military use is a myth. Here is a site that has the official word on this:

    http://www.tioh.hgda.pentagon.mil/FAQ/FringeOnAmFlg.htm


    The text states that the fringe is honorary only and is as old as 1835 and used by the Army from 1895. "There is no record of an Act of Congress or Executive Order which either prescribes or prohiibits the additoon of fringe, nor is there any indication that any symbolism was ever associated with it. The use of fringe is optional with the preson or organization displaying the flag."

    The US Congress sells them and they can be ordered as flown from the Capitol or not.

    I was a Federal Employee for 30 years and every office of a local office manager and headquartes officials at certain grade levels had one on a stand. The text cited also states that they are not customarily used on flag poles or on caskets.

    Ron Bowers
     
  4. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Hi, Ron!

    I think the Executive Order re military use is a myth.

    Of course it is. The text of the E.O. is readily available online (I've included the link in a couple of my earlier posts), and it doesn't say anything at all about fringes. Wouldn't it be great if these folks would actually read the E.O., instead of posting all this blather?

    Thanks for your post -- it's really good to know that there are some reasonable people out there!

    Peter A.
     
  5. John Lowe

    John Lowe New Member

    There is a typo in the url: it should be hqda, not hgda.

    Also there is a typo in the information itself. It says "internment" but obviously means "interment." I doubt we ever waste good flags on prisoners; the dead are more worthy.

    JLowe


     
  6. 'Wouldn't it be great if these folks would actually read the E.O., instead of posting all this blather?'


    lol! absolutely
     
  7. rltw

    rltw New Member

    So, i forgot where i heard this from, but i heard that for the gold fringe, each little tassle or fringe was representing each conflict or battle that the U.S. was involved in. I havent heard no one else mention this, has anyone heard of that also?
     
  8. nope - i would say that is a big pile of tush!!!
     
  9. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Actually, "rltw" may have been referring to the Campaign and Service streamers that the US Army displays on their service and unit flags. The streamers are attached to the top of the flag staff, and carry the names of campaigns and battles that the unit participated in, as well as awards that it has received.

    The streamer system was created in the 1920s. Previously, battle honors had been inscribed directly on the flags. You'll see many examples of Civil War regimental colors (from both sides) that carry the names of the battles that the regiment took part in.

    You can read about the Army streamer system here

    CAMPAIGN, WAR SERVICE AND UNIT AWARD STREAMERS

    on the web site of the US Army Institute of Heraldry.

    Peter Ansoff
     
  10. well that would make sence... i thought he was talkin about each little tassle on the fringe around a US flag
     
  11. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    i thought he was talkin about each little tassle on the fringe around a US flag

    I think that he was a bit confused. Can you imagine somebody actually counting all the little tassels on a fringe?!?

    Peter Ansoff
     
  12. lol.... not even i hve ever done that!
     
  13. rockitmarty

    rockitmarty New Member

    oh interesting, I never took notice of the symbolism
     
  14. boza127

    boza127 New Member

    Flags -- any flags -- with gold fringe encirclilng it represents a flag that has seen 'battle'

    This standard has been carried into battle -- not necessarily the one you are gazing at -- but the representative flag of the nation.

    Ironically, the Papal flag is entitled to have gold fringe because it, too, has been carried into conflict.
     
  15. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Greetings, Boza -- welcome to the forum!

    Flags -- any flags -- with gold fringe encirclilng it represents a flag that has seen 'battle'

    That's a romantic idea, but it's not true. Any flag can be fringed -- the fringe is an "honorable enrichment" to make the flag look nice. It has no symbolic meaning at all. You'll find a lot of detailed discussion about this here in the forum.

    Peter Ansoff
     
  16. American Flag in UK? WTF!! are you British or American? If I recall we declaired our independance from the UK!! The Gold fringe flag is YOUR flag, not the AMERICAN flag.... look it up! You are all talking about the U.S. flag (the corporate flag) NOT the American flag! look up what the AMERICAN flag looks like! gold fringe cause it looks pretty!! good one!! MARITIME! MILITARY, thats what is represents,.....


    find out what the "legal" definition of US citizen is, it means,.... "employee of a foriegn corporation"... a BRITISH corporation!! formed in 1868...


    do YOUR homework!!

    History:

    1: I have heard that at the beginning of the civil war when the southern states seceded from the union that their delegates left congress in the middle of the session and that their absence left less than a quorum to do business thereby leaving them no way of adjourning properly and so congress was adjourned “Sine Die†affectively ending the de-jure congress of the united states, and that president Lincoln, as commander in chief, ordered congress to reconvene and that they then formed a corporation called U.S. Inc. which now stands as a de-facto government which we live under today. Is this true?

    2: I have heard that the 14th and 16th amendments to the US constitution were not properly ratified and that even the Supreme Court has ruled that is so. Is this true?

    3: I have heard that we have been under a constant state of emergency since the civil war and that during such emergencies the president has near dictatorial powers to run this country as commander in chief. Is this true?

    Citizenship Status:

    1: I have heard that the 14th amendment created a new class of citizen/subject and that anyone claiming to be a U.S. citizen voluntarily subjects him or herself to the federal governments exclusive authority mentioned in Article 1, section 8, clause 17 of the U.S. Constitution. Is this true?


    2: I have heard that if a man or woman were to renounce their US citizenship and claim state Citizenship only that the federal government would have no authority over that man or woman. Is this true?

    3: Does the state or federal government claim to have a property or security interest in my body or my person? If so, how was such an interest created?

    4: I have heard that the birth certificate is used to create some type of corporate straw man legal fiction which is then used to create a bond/security of some type which is then used by the federal government to finance its operations. Is this true? If so, please explain to me how this works and if the government requires my consent to do this and what is my interest in this legal fiction.




    Banking/Money:

    1: I have heard that the Federal Reserve Banking System is a private corporation. Is this true?

    2: I have heard that sometime between 1933 and 1968 that all the gold and silver currency was removed from the public and replaced with the private fiat currency, “Federal Reserve Notes†and that these notes are evidence of a debt to a private corporation. Would you please explain why and how the federal government is able to allow this in clear violation of Article 1 section 8 clause 4, and Article 1 section 10 clause 1 of the US constitution?

    3: I have heard that “We the People†are the creditors of the national debt and that being such we have an “exemption†we can use to “set off†or “discharge†debts. Is this true? If so, please explain how a man or woman might go about using such an exemption or set off.

    4: I have heard that the IRS is a foreign private corporation based in Puerto Rico. Is this true?

    5: I have heard that none of the fiat money the IRS collects actually goes to pay for government services but goes to pay on the interest owed to the banking system and is sent directly to the IMF. Is this true? If not, please explain to me what exactly happens to any money collected by the IRS.


    Travel/Liberty:

    1: I have heard that the act of registering an automobile with the state voluntarily gives the state a property interest in that automobile and that by doing so a man is claiming to be conducting commerce on the highways and is thereby liable for taxes and performance under the commerce clause of the constitution. Is this true?

    2: I have heard that the act of applying for a drivers license is an admission that you are conducting commerce on the highways and thereby makes you liable for taxes and performance under the commerce clause of the constitution. Is this true?

    3: Does the common law right to travel still exist in this state? If not, please explain how, when and where it was repealed or removed.

    4: Does the California or federal governments claim the right to dictate what a man or woman may ingest in their own bodies?

    5: Does the California or federal governments claim the right to dictate what God given plants a man or woman may grow on their own land?

    6: Does the California or federal governments claim the right to dictate what a man or woman may lawfully possess on their physical persons, even if it was acquired lawfully (not stolen)?

    7: Does the California or federal government claim the right to dictate what a man or woman may build on their own land? If so, how did they acquire the interest in the property?

    Answer these questions and you have found truth!
     
  17. USNavyIO

    USNavyIO New Member

    The flags displayed in State courts and courts of the United States have gold or yellow fringes. That is your WARNING that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America. more information

    MILITARY FLAG WITH THE GOLD FRINGE

    Martial Law Flag "Pursuant to 4 U.S.C. chapter 1, §§1, 2, & 3; Executive Order 10834, August 21, 1959; 24 F.R.6865; a military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a YELLOW FRINGE border on three sides. The President of the United States designates this deviation from the regular flag, by executive order, and in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief of the military. The placing of a fringe on the national flag, the dimensions of the flag and the arrangement of the stars in the union are matters of detail not controlled by statute, but are within the discretion of the President as Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy." 34 Ops. Atty. Gen. 83.

    President, Dwight David Eisenhower, by Executive Order No.10834, signed on August 21, 1959 and printed in the Federal Register at 24 F.R. 6865, pursuant to law, stated that: "A military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a yellow fringe border on three sides."

    THE LAW OF THE FLAG

    The Law of the Flag, an International Law, which is recognized by every nation of the planet, is defined as:

    "... a rule to the effect that a vessel is a part of the territory of the nation whose flag she flies. The term is used to designate the RIGHTS under which a ship owner, who sends his vessel into a foreign port, gives notice by his flag to all who enter into contracts with the ship master that he intends the Law of that Flag to regulate those contracts, and that they must either submit to its operation or not contract with him or his agent at all." Ref.: Ruhstrat v. People, 57 N.E. 41

    By the doctrine of "four cornering" the flag establishes the law of the country that it represents. For example, the embassies of foreign countries, in Washington D.C., are "four cornered" by walls or fencing, creating an "enclave." Within the boundaries of the "enclave" of the foreign embassy, the flag of that foreign country establishes the jurisdiction and law of that foreign country, which will be enforced by the Law of the Flag and international treaty. If you enter an embassy, you will be subject to the laws of that country, just as if you board a ship flying a foreign flag, you will be subject to the laws of that flag, enforceable by the "master of the ship," (Captain), by the law of the flag.

    When you enter a courtroom displaying a gold or yellow fringed flag, you have just entered into a foreign country, and you better have your passport with you, because you may not be coming back to the land of the free for a long time. The judge sitting under a gold or yellow fringe flag becomes the "captain" or "master" of that ship or enclave and he has absolute power to make the rules as he goes. The gold or yellow fringe flag is your warning that you are leaving your Constitutionally secured RIGHTS on the floor outside the door to that courtroom.

    This is exactly why so many judges are appointed, and not elected by the people. The Federal judges are appointed by the President, the national military commander in chief. The State judges are appointed by the Governors, the state military commanders. The judges are appointed because the courts are military courts and civilians do not "elect" military officers.

    Under martial law, you are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

    The gold-fringed flag only stands inside military courts that sit in summary court martial proceedings against civilians and such courts are governed in part by local rules, but more especially by "The Manual of Courts Martial", U.S., 1994 Ed., at Art. 99, (c)(1)(b), pg. IV-34, PIN 030567-0000, U.S. Government Printing Office, Wash. D.C. The details of the crimes that civilians can commit, that are classed as 'Acts of War,' cover 125 pages in the Manual of Courts Martial.

    Under Article IV, section 3, of the Constitution for the united States of America, no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State. So -- Why have the judges of the State and Federal courts been allowed to erect foreign enclaves within our public courthouses under a foreign flag with the yellow fringe upon the soil of your state?

    We just thought you would like to know, so that the next time you see this yellow fringed flag you will know what you are looking at and what it really means. If you are in Spain and you see the National Flag of Spain, you would know that you are under the jurisdiction of Spain; and their laws govern you at this time. You are officially NOTICED when you see their flag. This is an admiralty law that says that all who see this flag understand they are governed by the laws of the country that this flag represents. You SHOULD understand that the gold or yellow fringed flag signifies the same thing. It is a notice to you that you are under the rules and regulations of the military force that is flying that flag.

    Are you familiar with martial law?

    Does your attorney understand what this flag means?

    "It is an elementary rule of pleading, that a plea to the jurisdiction is a tacit (silent) admission that the court has a right to judge the case and is a waiver to all exception to the jurisdiction."(Girty v. Logan, 6 Bush KY, 8)
     
  18. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Hello, Nathaniel,

    look up what the AMERICAN flag looks like! gold fringe cause it looks pretty!! good one!! MARITIME! MILITARY, thats what is represents,.....

    Where would you suggest that we "look up" this information? Can you show us any law, regulation, historical document or custom that ascribes any meaning to fringes on US flags?

    I have heard that

    You seem to "have heard" a lot of things. Do you believe everything you hear?

    Best regards,

    Peter Ansoff
     
  19. Peter Ansoff

    Peter Ansoff USA Flag Site Admin

    Hi, USNavy IO,

    "Pursuant to 4 U.S.C. chapter 1, §§1, 2, & 3; Executive Order 10834, August 21, 1959; 24 F.R.6865; a military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a YELLOW FRINGE border on three sides. The President of the United States designates this deviation from the regular flag, by executive order, and in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief of the military.

    Please do us all a favor -- read the documents that you cite before you quote them. Both 4 USC 1 and E.O. 10834 are available online. If you read them, you will find out that neither one says anything about a fringe. "24 F.R. 6865" is not a separate document; that's just the location in the Federal Register where the E.O. was published in 1959.

    The placing of a fringe on the national flag, the dimensions of the flag and the arrangement of the stars in the union are matters of detail not controlled by statute, but are within the discretion of the President as Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy."

    This is a more-or-less accurate quote from a 1925 Attorney General's opinion. It says that the President can specify whether fringes are to be used on flags used by the armed forces, just as he can specify the proportions and other details of the flags that they use. The President could say that flags used by the military must have fringes, but no president ever has. And, even if one had, it would not mean that the fringe had any symbolic meaning. The fringe is decoration, period.

    The rest of your post is, to put it bluntly, a lot of silly nonsense. I know that you didn't make all this up, because I have seen the same identical words over and over on many web sites. Please, let's stop cutting-and-pasting the same old garbage.

    Peter Ansoff
     
  20. sure I can show you where and how the gold fringes came from and what they mean....


    I would like you to show me where it says they are "just decorative", fair trade right? Yes I have heard a lot of things, and don't believe anything until I read or see or re-duplicate what I heard....


    AMERICA IS BANKRUPT
    Later, when I went to visit the judge, I told him of my problem with the supreme Court cases dealing with Public Policy rather than Public Law. He said, "In 1938, all the higher judges, the top attorneys and the U.S. attorneys were called into a secret meeting and this is what we were told: America is a bankrupt nation--it is owned completely by its creditors. The creditors own the Congress, they own the Executive, they own the Judiciary and they own all the state governments. Take silent judicial notice of this fact, but never reveal it openly. Your court is operating in a Admiralty Jurisdiction--call it anything you want, but do not call it Admiralty.
    ADMIRALTY COURTS
    The reason they cannot call it Admiralty Jurisdiction is that your defense would be quite different in Admiralty Jurisdiction from your defense under the Common Law. In Admiralty, there is no court which has jurisdiction unless there is a valid international contract in dispute. If you know it is Admiralty Jurisdiction, and they have admitted on the record that you are in an Admiralty Court, you can demand that the international maritime contract, to which you are supposedly a party, and which you supposedly have breached, be placed into evidence. No court has Admiralty/Maritime Jurisdiction unless there is a valid international maritime contract that has been breached. So you say, just innocently like a lamb, "Well, I never knew that I got involved with an international maritime contract, so I deny that such a contract exists. If this court is taking jurisdiction in Admiralty, then place the contract in evidence, so that I may challenge the validity of the contract. What they would have to do is place the national debt into evidence. They would have to admit that the international bankers own the whole nation, and that we are their slaves.

    JURISDICTION
    The Constitution of the united States mentions three areas of jurisdiction in which the courts may operate:
    Common Law
    Common Law is based on God's Law. Anytime someone is charged under the Common Law, there must be a damaged party. You are free under the Common Law to do anything you please, as long as you do not infringe on the life, liberty, or property of someone else. You have a right to make a fool of yourself provided you do not infringe on the life, liberty, or property of someone else. The Common Law does not allow for any government action which prevents a man from making a fool of himself. For instance, when you cross over state lines in most states, you will see a sign which says, "BUCKLE YOUR SEAT BELTS--IT'S THE LAW.' This cannot be Common Law, because who would you injure if you did not buckle up? Nobody. This would be compelled performance. But Common Law cannot compel performance. Any violation of Common Law is a CRIMINAL ACT, and is punishable.
    Equity Law
    Equity Law is law which compels performance. It compels you to perform to the exact letter of any contract that you are under. So, if you have compelled performance, there must be a contract somewhere, and you are being compelled to perform under the obligation of the contract. Now this can only be a civil action--not criminal. In Equity Jurisdiction, you cannot be tried criminally, but you can be compelled to perform to the letter of a contract. If you then refuse to perform as directed by the court, you can be charged with contempt of court, which is a criminal action. Are our seatbelt laws Equity laws? No, they are not, because you cannot be penalized or punished for not keeping to the letter of a contract.
    Admiralty/Maritime Law
    This is a civil jurisdiction of Compelled Performance which also has Criminal Penalties for not adhering to the letter of the contract, but this only applies to International Contracts. Now we can see what jurisdiction the seatbelt laws (and all traffic laws, building codes, ordinances, tax codes, etc.) are under. Whenever there is a penalty for failure to perform (such as willful failure to file), that is Admiralty/ Maritime Law and there must be a valid international contract in force. However, the courts don't want to admit that they are operating under Admiralty/Maritime Jurisdiction, so they took the international law or Law Merchant and adopted it into our codes. That is what the supreme Court decided in the Erie Railroad case--that the decisions will be based on commercial law or business law and that it will have criminal penalties associated with it. Since they were instructed not to call it Admiralty Jurisdiction, they call it Statutory Jurisdiction.

    This was posted just a few mesasges back and is SPOT ON! At least SOMEONE is awake in here!!!




    "As to the yellow fringe on our flags, APFN states, The flags displayed in State courts and courts of the United States have gold or yellow fringes. That is your WARNING that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America. more information

    MILITARY FLAG WITH THE GOLD FRINGE

    Martial Law Flag "Pursuant to 4 U.S.C. chapter 1, §§1, 2, & 3; Executive Order 10834, August 21, 1959; 24 F.R.6865; a military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a YELLOW FRINGE border on three sides. The President of the United States designates this deviation from the regular flag, by executive order, and in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief of the military. The placing of a fringe on the national flag, the dimensions of the flag and the arrangement of the stars in the union are matters of detail not controlled by statute, but are within the discretion of the President as Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy." 34 Ops. Atty. Gen. 83.

    President, Dwight David Eisenhower, by Executive Order No.10834, signed on August 21, 1959 and printed in the Federal Register at 24 F.R. 6865, pursuant to law, stated that: "A military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a yellow fringe border on three sides"

    It is after all a battle in the "court" (games are played on courts"

    Get all that Peter???
     
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