Veterans' Salute protocols

[hdpatriot]

I participate in veterans funerals with the Patriot Guard Riders. We hold flags on staffs during veiwings and services. the PGR PA leaders have told us that vets can salute when needed during the ceremony while holding the flag. I disagree with this for many reasons, 1. You hold the flag in your right hand while marching or standing so how could you salute. 2. You never salute while holding a flag. 3. The law was changed to allow a veteran to salute while the national anthem is being played raising or lowering orduring pledge of allegiance, not whenever a salute is rendered. 4. The flag receives honors not renders them. I want to bring this up to the leadership but wanted someone elses veiws on it. I retired from the Army and carried colors many times during my career. Thanks for any help you can give!

[SilentSpectreANG]

I thought early in 2009 they amended it so that military members and veterans in civvies could salute during the playing of the national anthem as well.

[Robin Hickman]

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Hello, SilentSpectreANG !

Welcome to the USA-Flag-Site Forums !


QUOTE : "I thought early in 2009 they amended it so that military members and veterans in civvies could salute during the playing of the national anthem as well."


Actually, it was in January, 2008. It has all been covered pretty thoroughly earlier in this particular thread, so go back to the beginning of page one and start from there.

And, yes, it is sometimes more than a little confusing!


Good Luck !!!


Robin Hickman
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[Peter Ansoff]

Actually, you're both right! (-;

The original amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act was adopted as Public Law 110-181 in January 2008. It changed the section of the code (Section 9 of 4 USC 1) dealing with saluting when the flag is raised, lowered or passing in review. As discussed earlier in this forum, it didn't change the other two sections of the code that dealt with saluting for the national anthem, (36 USC 301(b)(1)) and for the Pledge of Allegiance (4 USC 1 Section 4). This set up an absurd situation, in which vets and service members in civies could use the military salute in some cases, but not in others.

Apparently, somebody noticed the error, because the 2009 Defense Authorization Act, adopted as PL 110-417 in October 2008, made the corresponding change to 36 USC. Now, the code says that vets and members in civies can use the military salute for the national anthem. However, Congress has still not addressed the Pledge of Allegience. Maybe next year they will finally get it right.

However, there's more to the story. Both the Chief of Naval Operations and the Commandant of the Marine Corps have issued direction (CNO message 012345Z Apr 09 and ALMAR 052/08, respectively), stating that Navy and Marine Corps personnel who are not in uniform will not use the military salute in any circumstances. The ALMAR states "By custom and tradition, Marines do not render the hand salute when out of uniform or when uncovered. Let there be no confusion; that has not changed." These military directives do not affect veterans, who are not subject to military regulations, but they do affect active-duty Sailors and Marines who are not in uniform. So far, the other services have not issued corresponding direction as far as I know.

The "flag code" is not enforceable, and the code itself states that it does not apply to the military. However, Congress has muddied the waters by putting what amount to military regulations in the flag code. The military regs issued by the Navy and the Marine Corps are enforceable upon active duty servicepeople, and contradict what Congress has put in the flag code. It will be interesting to see how this plays out (once somebody notices what is going on).

Peter Ansoff

[Robin Hickman]

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Thank you for the "Update", Peter !!!


I gratefully stand corrected !!!


Robin Hickman
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[emsdial911]

I understand why they were against it. A lot of people feel that only those still in uniform should be able to honor the flag. Its a privledge that comes with continuing to serve.

However, I think it would be good to amend it to those that served at any time. A lot of people in our country are forgetting what it is to love this place even with her flaws and problems.

Seeing it honored in greater numbers would mean a lot to those that served.

I don't understand, the right to salute is given to those who have served and protected the flag and what it stands for. Just because I am no longer in uniform (due to injuries sustained in the Gulf War) does not mean I should lose the right to salute. The flag still flys because myself and others like me have made it so.

[oldrailfan]

HR4986 [110] is long overdue. I am a Viet Nam veteran who received an honorable discharge in 1974. Personally, I've saluted ever since, protocol or not.
My reasoning falls in the area of "...a vet doesn't lose the right to salute when he separates, and the flag is entitled to a salute, therefore..." I don't know why there was any question on the practice. JMHO
Funny thing is, I've done it, and vets near me have picked up on it and followed suit.

[oldrailfan]

I understand why they were against it. A lot of people feel that only those still in uniform should be able to honor the flag. Its a privledge that comes with continuing to serve.

When you enlisted you took an oath to "...protect and defend..." Were you ever released from that oath? Same applies, IMO, to the salute.

However, I think it would be good to amend it to those that served at any time. A lot of people in our country are forgetting what it is to love this place even with her flaws and problems.

I agree, so did Sen. Inhofe.

Seeing it honored in greater numbers would mean a lot to those that served.